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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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Jun 30, 2013 - 03:04pm PT
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Ron all true, but you forget the end game. At some point the bear population will reach equilibrium & start to fluctuate with resources available to them.
Nature is pretty good at this.
I'm not opposed to humane hunting.
I'm more than sure that you do the best job you can to cause the least pain possible.
I'm sure you do the best job possible at anything you do.
But you aren't most people.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jun 30, 2013 - 06:56pm PT
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You have a right to bear arms, so arm bears.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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Jun 30, 2013 - 08:24pm PT
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Stop all the non sense. The bear population did just fine for the last few thousand years.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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According to George C. Frison, Professor Emeritus of Anthropology at University of Wyoming ( Fellow of the national Academy of Science, and called "Paleoarchaeoligist of the 20th Century) stated that "man and bears have been in conflict for more than 10,000 years of archaeological evidence." He was referring to human remains found that had been killed/chewed on/eaten by bears at various "digs."
So...nuthin' new here.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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No kidding.
Top predators usually are in conflict.
The question is do we want these beautiful & powerful beings in our lives. Or do we want a planet without them, or with them pushed into a very controlled & small area.
You take the bad with the good -- you can't have only a fluffy save life & a really world.
Compared to the rest of life, living with bears ain't such a bad deal.
Want to be a really man --- hunt human trafficers.
Hunt animal abusers. Hunt serial killers. learn to live with brown bears.
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hossjulia
climber
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Relocating bears does not work. This has been proven. They die trying to get back to home.
That's why they are killed instead of being relocated. Relocating them will kill most of them anyway.
Sounds like NDOW should be fining that gaited community for improper trash disposal.
The situation in June Lake was far worse than feeding bears. One woman in particular was, and probably still is, feeding everything, resulting in some habituated bobcats too! Dumping bags of dog food in her driveway to feed the "poor little critters". Bet she's still doing it.
I don't feed nuthin, not even birds. It's human arrogance to think they NEED us.
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hashbro
Trad climber
Mental Physics........
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http://islandpress.org/ip/books/book/islandpress/G/bo3561450.html
this book explains why (despite what some in the agencies say) all bears (and top predators) are imperiled and should be treated with extreme respect and caution....rather than the old style lethal "management" that has left most bears (large cats and wolves) worldwide teetering
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
California
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I've come to the conclusion that black bears living on the urban/wilderness interface are basically large raccoons. I wish it wasn't that way, but that's basically what most of them eventually become. It happens in Tahoe, Colorado, Alaska and New Jersey. It would be great to see them not killed or even transplanted but to some degree that's always going to happen. Man is sloppy and some men is stupid and man certainly checks his brain when he comes to Tahoe for a vacation.
My neighborhood is pretty good about garbage. I've seen one bear in 2.5 years here and I'm on the edge of town not too far from Camp Rich and Fallen Leaf which has many bears who are garbage eaters. This week will be bad though as many of the vacation rentals have had out of towners from Fairview, Lodi and San Jose who will put out three or four days worth of garbage before they leave and more than bears, the coyotes will rejoice in an orgy of easy garbage strewn with over-charred hot dogs and ketchup soaked potato chips.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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hossjulia, at this time you are right relocating bears isn't working.
But it can work under the right circumstances. All of the Bear in the Angels National Forest
are decedents of troubled Bears relocated from Yosemite in the 1930's.
Sadly, the right circumstances are that you kill all the original bears.
It took decades for them to reproduce enough that it's common to see bears on the edges of the forest.
In the 1970's it was damn near impossible to find a bear in ANF.
We need to learn to live with them.
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