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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Sep 25, 2012 - 02:56am PT
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"Officer, do you have any marijuana or a medical marijuana card on you? My response to both was no. He then proceeded to ask if he searched the car would he find anything, and I said no (which was true)."
Anything that followed giving him your driver's license was way out of line. When you get out of your car, the first thing to do is lock it behind you with the remote. Then, say forcefully, "I do not give you permission to search my vehicle." That whole hypothetical "if he searched the car" should not have been answered. The condition is phrased in such a way that answering it trashes your 5th amendment right to not incriminate yourself. If he finds anything during a subsequent search of your vehicle, it will be admissible as evidence. However, if you indicated to him first thing that you did not give him permission to search your car, any evidence he finds will be challenged by your lawyer and thrown out. Just saying 'No' that way you did might lead you down a slippery forensic slope to a bust. If law enforcement can prove that "No" answer was a lie, they're ready to make an arrest right there.
This video is full of handy tips:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJrQBwJpqk
If stopped, the only thing you're required to do is give the officer some valid ID with proof of insurance and registration etc. etc. etc. You do not have to answer any leading or self-incriminating questions. After the Ranger has run an APB and found that you don't have any outstanding warrants, you should ask him: "Am I being detained? Am I free to go now?" If he hasn't got grounds to arrest you and he still detains you there, you've got the beginnings of a false detention law suit, which could mature, given the right bright attorney, into a false arrest or false imprisonment law suit that could/would cost the NPS a chunk of change. Just asking, "Am I free to go now?" places the ball in his court. If he thinks he has grounds to arrest you, he'll do it now. If not, get in the car and leave the scene. That is, unless he's already cited you for speeding since he could'nt really nail you for anything else. Accept the ticket, say 'Thanks', and leave. EOM.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Sep 25, 2012 - 03:12am PT
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^ I have seen that, great advice.
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snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
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Sep 25, 2012 - 04:12am PT
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Nice Bruce!
Some organizations actually offer legal training- where they will teach you this stuff and then simulate law enforcement interactions- replete with people in cop uniforms using all the sleazy verbal tactics.
Just like self-rescue- when it's timely, it's better- so train up people!
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steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
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Sep 25, 2012 - 08:23am PT
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It seems like every time I've visited the Valley, I've get tooled.
I'll be there in 3 weeks, but this time, I'm going on that AAC gig, where they pick you up at the airport. I won't be driving so I guess I have nothing to worry about.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Sep 25, 2012 - 09:32am PT
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Is everyone talking about the Park Police? They get them all jacked up to be ready to defend the Washington DC monuments, etc. from terrorist attacks and they bring this take-no-prisoners attitude to the most amazing tourist attractions in the US. They're not like park rangers, who normally come from forestry/environmentalist backgrounds then realize they have to go into law enforcement to have job security.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Sep 25, 2012 - 10:15am PT
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I got stopped blasting out of Merced towards the Valley around midnight. Driving a jeep CJ with climbing stickers, stuffed with partners and gear. I think I was doing 70 in a 45 zone.
It was a little tense, then he saw on my driver's license that I was from Burbank. "Watch your speed." And I was on my way.
Being white, clean cut, and from the right neighborhood can help a lot. Being friendly, positive and agreeable helps too.
I don't agree with that practice but it's true.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Sep 25, 2012 - 11:50am PT
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Dang, all this makes me scared to drive through Toulomne this Friday!
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Sep 25, 2012 - 12:24pm PT
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phuck you locker, if you ever spent anytime in the Valley and been tooled one time too many, you'd be singing a different tune
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covelocos
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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Sep 25, 2012 - 12:42pm PT
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Its true... ALL rock climbers smoke weed. Admit it!
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Shurlock_Ventriloquist
climber
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Sep 25, 2012 - 12:48pm PT
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A day without orange juice is like a day without sunshine but a day without marijuana ...
... is like a month.
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John M
climber
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Sep 25, 2012 - 12:52pm PT
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Seems like there is a bit of a difference between deserving to get tooled, and knott. Having to put up with a two hour search when there is nothing in your vehicle just cause the tool profiled you is pure bullsh#t. Complaining about that isn't whining. In fact, the park rangers count on people not complaining.
Lockstar, you did the crime, you did the time. But why shouldn't people complain when they didn't do any crime, but are harassed. Do you think that the police should be allowed to do whatever they want?
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Sep 25, 2012 - 01:06pm PT
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locker, you're proof positive that getting tooled can be a good thing.
cheers
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briham89
Big Wall climber
los gatos. ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 25, 2012 - 04:04pm PT
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^^hahaha
Tfpu, tfpu that was interesting
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Sep 25, 2012 - 04:39pm PT
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Exactly, TFPU: Don't talk to them. Don't volunteer any information. Any information you volunteer can be used as grounds for arrest if it conflicts with information they have already on file from another witness that contradicts your information.
For example, at Castle Rock State Park, one of the classic interview techniques used by the Rangers is to walk up and ask you where you were or where you're coming from? Also, what you were doing there?
These items of information are NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS and could be used as grounds for arrest if you admitted, for example, being in a closed area. All they can ask for is your ID and vehicle registration.
That Hastings Law Professor is absolutely right. Don't get chatty with the Rangers or Police. You'll get classified as a "Police Type" or person-of-interest. This is the way they develop a network of informants on the street. You can bet they'll be back to chat with you some more.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Sep 25, 2012 - 05:15pm PT
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There is nothing wrong with profiling.
And there is no such thing as an honest cop. They are all dishonest.
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TFPU
Sport climber
Idaho
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Sep 25, 2012 - 05:18pm PT
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Right on, Bruce! That's an interesting video. Dont say a thing! Except for "attica". I'm just going to scream attica! Attica! next time
^^^^ SLR: lol
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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Sep 25, 2012 - 05:50pm PT
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climbers = skiers = skateboarders = deadheads
Everyone should know by now that displaying a Grateful Dead Sticker on your vehicle constitutes probable cause to search it for LSD.
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