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Gunkie
Trad climber
East Coast US
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Aug 29, 2012 - 10:23am PT
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Ooops, from the other thread thread...
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I'm in. Was brought up by parents who were deeply religious early in their respective lives and dropped it once they got married in NYC City Hall because each was of a different religion (mom=southern baptist, dad=eastern orthodox) and my dad's side sent death threats to my mom, quite the wake up call. So I was never indoctrinated with religious precepts and revealed truths... And my Sundays were free and clear then and remain so to this day.
My wife was selectively religious when we first met. I have since broken her of that fence-sitting and she fell onto the evil non-believer side with me. However, she did send two of our kids to a Lutheran pre-school where my son began to believe in hell and that god is vengeful. Yikes, had to break him of that.
I can say that the entire Gunkie Gang is now living on the evil side of the fence. More can be learned from the attached video below.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Aug 29, 2012 - 10:31am PT
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Zen Buddhism and dont even think about it.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 29, 2012 - 12:09pm PT
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A real confident person says , "I believe this, I am this", and enough said. Make a coherent stand and defend it or support it.
Quit being defensive, incoherent, and politically correct!!!! Make a stand. Man.
If cancer cells could talk, this is what they'd say.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Aug 29, 2012 - 12:36pm PT
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Zen Buddhism and dont even think about it.
perfect
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Aug 29, 2012 - 05:48pm PT
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Agnostic pantheist here. Athiest in the sense of not anthropomorphizing a diety.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Aug 29, 2012 - 06:11pm PT
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Like the Muppet, I was raised in a household with no religion. It wasn't anti-religion. It wasn't pro-religion. It just wasn't a topic at all.
Bluering asks about what some of us believe and expresses a desire that we take a stand and be a man. (I can't be a man, but I can express my thoughts). I've not been asked, but here goes.
My thought is that I am but a teeny tiny itsy bitsy speck in the face of the universe. Given my near nothingness, how I can expect to know what is real or not in terms of a God or heaven or any of it? Not saying I disbelieve or believe. But I don't feel significant enough to think I could know something so significant.
Recently, I found myself jealous (for lack of better word) of those with strong conviction and assurances that there is an afterlife a God and other positive and reassuring things a religion offers. It may sound trivial to you, but it was the death of Ferne, my parrot. I saw him conceived. I still have the egg he hatched from. I raised him. I have feathers he molted throughout his life. He was (is) my baby as much as any human baby could have been. Possibly more. And he died unexpectedly on New Year's Eve. That pain was (is) indescribable.
A lot of the pain of his death comes from not knowing where he "is". Where is he? How can he just cease? How can that energy that was Ferne - uniquely Ferne - just stop? To think that he was (is) just over/gone is really unbearable.
From this pain, I find great comfort in this quote posted upthread by Wyo guy (forgot your full avatar - sorry):
You want a physicist to speak at your funeral. You want the physicist to talk to your grieving family about the conservation of energy, so they will understand that your energy has not died. You want the physicist to remind your sobbing mother about the first law of thermodynamics; that no energy gets created in the universe, and none is destroyed. You want your mother to know that all your energy, every vibration, every Btu of heat, every wave of every particle that was her beloved child remains with her in this world. You want the physicist to tell your weeping father that amid energies of the cosmos, you gave as good as you got.
I've really looked at it all differently since Ferne's death. I still don't believe that as a tiny speck in the cosmos I can presume to ever know the truth. But man, I want more than anything to know Ferne still is and is well and that I'll see him again.
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moacman
Trad climber
Montana
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Aug 29, 2012 - 06:15pm PT
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I am a true atheist so help me god.........
Stevo
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tornado
climber
lawrence kansas
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Aug 29, 2012 - 09:25pm PT
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anybody remember before they were born? There you go. Ever spend a sleepless night over that question?
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Kalimon
Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
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Aug 29, 2012 - 09:33pm PT
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One must simply listen to Joseph Campbell's "Power of Myth" in order to realize that all religions are just culturally specific mythology, the same stories repeating over and over that give the recipients answers and structure to the profound mystery we confront.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Aug 29, 2012 - 09:48pm PT
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Crimpy said:
But man, I want more than anything to know Ferne still is and is well and that I'll see him again.
16 years now my dad has been gone and I feel the same way about him as you do Ferne
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TomT
Trad climber
Aptos.
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I'll check in as atheist (non-theist??). Was raised conservative baptist, in a big church in Los Gatos Calif, even went to a small christian college for a year, and worked for a christian outdoor org for years afterward. I was really into it in a cultural practices sort of way- went to church meetings 5 days a week, even ran a bible study at 6 am on Tuesdays during high-school. Wanted to be a missionary -seemed like the best adventure available. After leaving my religion, to keep the peace, I called myself an agnostic till a few years ago, when on reflection I realized I didn't really believe there was any god, and might as well admit it.
The church was a very social place, I loved singing, but its focus on moral conduct was not that important for me as I never got in much trouble. Once I stopped all religious practice such as bible study prayer, worship) I do miss singing- I lost any longing for the church. After leaving my home church, I lost all interest in the bible, religion and got more interested in history, society and culture, subjects my church or other christian friends did not discuss. My church seemed to be very provincial (the only things of interest were a few hundred years around the time of Jesus in Palestine and everything since 1946 in my home town.
I traveled a lot, climbed a lot, and went to school a lot for the next 10 years and got an graduate degree in anthropology, live in the Andes for a couples of years in small villages, and have worked in a University for many years hence.
My biggest doubts about my religion and there being a god sprung from noting (like my mother) that the people in our church were not better people than the catholics , mormons or anyone else on our block. Also, despite fervent prayers, I realized around 18 that god didn't really talk to me , and suddenly the bible seemed to be horribly off topic, a collection of weird old stories in which people seemed desperate to find truths. At bible studies, we practiced something I later learned is hermeneutics, extracting meaning from verses- I learned I didn't need the bible to find meanings or guidance.
Also, I began to see how the people in my church were conflating things like free enterprise and bible ideas (which as far as I could read into the bible leaned more towards spiritual collectivism than free market, nation-state, urban industrialism ). As a group they supported the Vietnam war, and the older people in the church seemed perfectly happy to send off 19 year boys to die on their behalf while they stayed home and made money. I concluded that most of the people in my church were shaped more by the economy and consumer culture than their religious beliefs. And they are were not alone- everyone in the world seems to mix political, economic and spiritual stuff, most of them defending stridently what their parents told them was the truth, while knowing very little about others.
Finally, historical stuff like the disease and the land wars that lead to losing most Native Americans in the first 100 years following the arrival of Europeans was not an event that made any sense with a benevolent new testament god in charge (maybe an old testament god).
Anyway, one day I just let go of the church and religion, and have never looked back (except for friendships). I don't seem to have much need for the supernatural, miss some of the social practices, especially singing together.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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The demographics are clear, sell your Bibles and Korans while they still have some value.
Good fiction has a long shelf life but in this case.....
Actually the Old Testament might do okay; plenty of sex, murder and betrayal.
People who identify themselves as atheist, agnostic or no religion by date of birth.
Before 1946 5%
1946 to 1966. 11%
1965 to 1976. 14%
1977 to present 19%
Maybe we would have been better off staying with the Queen. More pomp and circumstance to liven things up, healthcare for all, and 65% of Brits say they are non-religious and 39% don't believe in god.
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jstan
climber
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Considerable data suggests at death or other serious perturbation in brain function, very unusual sensations and thoughts appear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv&src_vid=Cpc-t-Uwv1I&v=UyyjU8fzEYU&annotation_id=annotation_973232
Some of those thoughts and sensations are even suggestive of popular models for what happens after death. Many people have survived these kinds of experience over the ages so these popular reports are actually what one would expect.
I see no evidence suggesting there is an afterlife so I take it there will be no reunion with loved ones either physical or mental.........but
at death I think it likely we will be thinking about someone we lost. That would be a reunion.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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It may sound trivial to you, but it was the death of Ferne, my parrot. I saw him conceived. I still have the egg he hatched from. I raised him. I have feathers he molted throughout his life. He was (is) my baby as much as any human baby could have been. Possibly more. And he died unexpectedly on New Year's Eve. That pain was (is) indescribable
Someone expressed to me, when I joined ST, that everyone liked you, Crimpie, because of your propriety, kindness and good will.
I think he must have included sincerity , in that too.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Re-reading my post it occurred to me probably not everyone understands my "I see you" comment to Crimpers. That's taken from Na' vi (the film, Avatar, all the rage a couple of years ago) more or less meaning, I get it, I get you.
Great testimonials, by Tom and others. Wish it were all under one thread that's spelled correctly, though.
Tom, that's such a worthy, meaningful post you might add it to the other thread, too!
Crimpers, too, of course.
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On the other hand, atheist climbers are so increasing in numbers nowadays that eventually we might need two threads, lol - one for those who "love" atheist life or lifestyle, the other for those who merely "like" it. :)
It's all good.
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SuperTopo on the Web
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an athy atheist :)
Let us know!