Spooked by bolt-protected climbs in J-Tree: is it just me?

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Darwin

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Feb 21, 2012 - 11:53pm PT

What Forest said: climb cracks, more easy slabs or top rope. My gripe with stick clipping is practical more than ethical. *Climb more* but safely, and don't listen to the jerks that belittle you. There's nothing wrong about not wanting to get hurt.

Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber

I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!

Feb 22, 2012 - 12:01am PT

the rock is so good at JT, who has ever taken a fall there?

you would have to be on crack to lose your grip,

people chop bolts all the time there, the further south, the more bolt chopping,

look at woodson, how many bolts there?

do you like granite that turns to powder when you step on it? move north.

Dos XX

Trad climber

Los Angeles, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2012 - 10:11am PT

Wow! I'm overwhelmed by the quantity and quality of constructive responses to my question. Thanks to each of you for taking the time to share your experience. My takeaway from your responses is that at times the leader needs to have a free-soloist mindset when climbing some of the bolt-protected routes at J-Tree, though the route's rating doesn't necessarily have an "R" or "X" modifier. Getting the right mindset can come from experience gained at a particular locale, in situations where the stakes aren't so high like on a TR or easily-protected gear lead.

As was pointed out also, there are plenty of climbing choices in J-Tree. In fact, we did find one T. Gordon bolt-protected route tucked in a corner at Indian Cove that had friendly enough bolt spacing that I let my daughter lead it as her very first lead of any sort, indoor or outdoor. Again, thanks folks on the Taco for lending me your J-Tree experience.

Gary

climber

That Long Black Cloud Is Coming Down

Feb 22, 2012 - 10:22am PT

You know it was a good climb when you get through it and tell yourself, "I'll never do that again."

Yeah, Spider, but being a big wienie, I avoid those situations like the plague.

And Riley is right, of course, if you can lead at Josh, you can lead anywhere.

ME Climb

climber

Behind the Orange Curtain

Feb 22, 2012 - 10:32am PT

Driving limitations was the scene of my worst fall, about 30'. It was definately operator error and I needed to sack up and make the move instead of hesitating. Ended up with some road rash and soreness.

Eric

steelmnkey

climber

Vision man...ya gotta have vision...

Feb 22, 2012 - 10:46am PT

FACT: I WAS SO SCARRED THIS WEEKEND THAT I SH#T ON TOP OF HEADSTOME ROCK BRA AFTER CRANKING THE RADNESS OF 5.6

So it was more of a Turtleheadstone Rock?

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, CA

Feb 22, 2012 - 07:31pm PT

Dos XX, it sounds like you've interpreted all the suggestions well. You got it.

Have fun and be safe! (But sometimes you gotta trust yorself and take some calculated 'go for it' moments).

I think most accidents at Josh result from people underestimating ratings and the type of slabbing required to climb out there. You don't get that in a gym.

That said, it's a great place to learn how to slab climb. Just start slow and work up. Get a feel, man!

Locker, "friction palming", get it???

steelmnkey

climber

Vision man...ya gotta have vision...

Feb 22, 2012 - 08:09pm PT

Probably a good idea to always remember that strong feet and good footwork is the foundation of being able to climb well at JT (at least on about 98% of the routes).

TGT

Social climber

So Cal

Feb 22, 2012 - 10:20pm PT

strong feet and good footwork is the foundation of being able to climb well

should'a stopped there.

Not that I have any, anymore

drljefe

climber

El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson

Feb 22, 2012 - 10:30pm PT

Hey dos xx

Bouldering can really help the head in that mission to a high first bolt.

Keep climbing!

looking sketchy there...

Social climber

Latitute 33

Feb 23, 2012 - 12:58pm PT

There are plenty of sport routes in Josh (as Mr. Gordon points out). But, older (trad) climbs generally presume that you only need protection where it is actually hard.

The difference is analogous bowling with or without the kiddy bumpers.

it is important to remember that j tree is a monument to 5.12 climbers putting up 5.9 routes from the ground up.

Like most "sound bites," viscerally appealing, yet upon examination, completely untrue. For many of these routes (particularly the 5.10s and 5.11s), people were climbing not far from (or at) their leading limit. Almost no one was climbing 5.12 back then.

But, climbing standards and ethos were very different. No gyms, no sport routes, and mental control was as important as physical prowess. It is all what you get used to.

I think it was Chas Cole (didn't he do the fa of surface tension) who told me that they got up on it and got a bolt in the first day, and when they came beck the following day to finish someone (he blamed Largo) had thrown a bunch of sand in that hole you have to party with at the start which created a problem.

Hilarious story Kris, but like many of the best, unfortunately untrue (except Charles was on the FA).

I think there are four bolts on this route, each was placed by a different person on the FA. And since it (like almost all routes of that era) was drilled on the lead, bolts were placed were good stances existed. The jump to and standing up into the initial hole was exciting, but after a couple times, didn't seem bad.

Gary

climber

That Long Black Cloud Is Coming Down

Feb 23, 2012 - 01:00pm PT

I think most accidents at Josh result from people underestimating ratings and the type of slabbing required to climb out there. You don't get that in a gym.

That and the nature of some of the cracks. Placing pro can be tricky in places.

But that's anywhere, eh?

justdave

Trad climber

Garrison, NY

Feb 23, 2012 - 01:27pm PT

Ha.

I will admit to backing off that move (not the whole climb, as there is a way to climb around the move) a couple of weeks ago. Then climbed the start on TR.

Was super glad I didn't lead it. The "sack up" and "the gear is where you need it" comments are spray: if you fell on that move, there is enough rope out that you would almost certainly hit the little ledge below, and anyone who disputes that is welcome to send me a video of them successfully jumping off just before clipping the second bolt to prove me wrong. That particular route, of quite low quality, is certainly not worth a trip to an orthopedic surgeon. Spot on are the "leader must not fall" comments: if you lead that move to the second bolt, you'd better stick it.

Psyched to go back when I've upped my slab game a little bit, and lead the whole semi-chossy thing.

All that said, a big part of slab climbing is confidence, so maybe there's a sack somewhere in this after all...

Gary

climber

That Long Black Cloud Is Coming Down

Feb 23, 2012 - 01:30pm PT

I don't think slab is about sack. It's looking at the move, knowing you've made that move before, and knowing you can make that move again. With that knowledge you can ignore that below that move there's nothing down there for you but death and dismemberment, as my buddy Don says.

justdave

Trad climber

Garrison, NY

Feb 23, 2012 - 02:00pm PT

But isn't "sack up!" just a way of saying "you're scared to do this move, but you can definitely do it, so DO IT!"?

Porkchop_express

Trad climber

Southwest for the winter

Feb 23, 2012 - 03:51pm PT

The mental strength required by the JT bolted routes is akin to physical strength in that it is something that takes time and practice to build up to the point that you have it on command. I like the fact that there is a place that I can go and climb harder than people who are stronger physically than me! Also it's a great feeling of accomplishment to be able to measure yourself against a no-fall scenario and succeed (when that actually happens).

I think it's great perspective on the whole of climbing to have gym 12's juxtaposed with 5.8s and to see that all hard climbing is not the same and that it is important to be well rounded.

That said, I have formed this opinion having succeeded on a couple of 5.8 vision-quests and getting shut down on many others. I think a big part of climbing in any area is to go in without expectations and adjust your mindset after seeing what the climbing feels like. Every time I go to JT if I can adjust my expectation and mindset I wind up having fun and not getting frustrated. If I go in thinking "5.8 should feel casual" I always wind up hitting a wall.

Steve Richert