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Dos XX
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 21, 2012 - 12:49pm PT
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I've only been on one climbing outing in Joshua Tree and all-in-all, enjoyed the climbing there. But I backed away from several moderate, bolt protected climbs after mentally working out the potential fall geometry. Frequently the first bolt was 25+ feet off the deck with non-trivial climbing to get there, and when I stood at the base of the route "Driving Limitations", for example, it looked as though there was potential to land on the starting ledge if one were to fall just before reaching the second bolt.
With reports of some long falls in J-Tree in recent months resulting in serious injuries, I'm wondering whether the bolt spacing ethic there results in relatively harsh leads compared to other climbing areas? Is it just me who feels this unease?
For the record, I'm all for each climbing area maintaining its own traditions and standards and think it's wrong for non-first ascensionists to tinker with the spacing of fixed protection. Maybe I just need bigger b*lls to climb there and still have fun. One thing's for sure: next time I go there I'll have a clip stick packed in the car.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Feb 21, 2012 - 01:00pm PT
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The Leader must not fall.
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Feb 21, 2012 - 01:01pm PT
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You should sack up a bit. That thing is considered a "sport" route. If you backed off "several" bolt protected climbs, your lid needs some tightening and maybe you are just not ready to lead climbs in JT.
But, on the other hand, if you are trolling, I give you a T1-
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Feb 21, 2012 - 01:02pm PT
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bigger b*lls
AND
the leader must not fall
got me up quite a few of those trixster routes
despair not, practice more, enjoy the challenges that are within reach.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Feb 21, 2012 - 01:07pm PT
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Climbing is supposed to be hard.
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Dos XX
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 21, 2012 - 01:11pm PT
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Not trolling, Russ. You're one of the guys I was hoping to get some feedback from. You, Locker, Todd G. I was definitely caught off-guard by the number of potential hard landings I saw, and yes, my lid needs better preparation for even some of the moderate stuff at J-Tree.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Feb 21, 2012 - 01:16pm PT
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It's mostly a generational thing.
Older routes subscribe to "the first 15 feet don't count" rule both for protection and rating.
True "sport climbs" are a fairly recent phenomena in The Monument and most of the older stuff definitely are not.
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Feb 21, 2012 - 01:16pm PT
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Toad.... really....
DosXX: Sounds like you are sorta new to the game. I would suggest getting some time on the stuff when you make it safe... do some TR's, go to Echo and traverse the entire rock a few feet off the ground.... get a good feel for what sticks and is solid. Get stronger. Being strong oozes confidence. Keep at it and think about what the FA was doing, or what he might have done when you reach a tough spot. Relax, and think about the wisdom of Walt Shipley.... "whaddya, attached to this world??"
Oh yeah edit: YER GONNA DIE!!!!!!!!!!
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Feb 21, 2012 - 01:17pm PT
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Fully agree with the lid-tightening up-comments. The old routes were all about pro where you needed it, not where you really didn't. I'm okay with discussion, but if you want to climb with bolts closer to the ground, and never more than a body length away, there are tons of areas you can head for these days. I for one would like to preserve areas where climbing has a mental aspect to go with the physical one.
edit: XX - have you tried Stichter Quits/Black Tide? How'd that go?
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Feb 21, 2012 - 01:43pm PT
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There's another thread going about guys getting Vitamin T injections, maybe seek help there?
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Forest
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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Feb 21, 2012 - 03:58pm PT
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Climb a crack and you can put in all the gear you want. JTree is not a sport climbing destination. Or just toprope. I've had plenty of fun TRing in JTree
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ClimbingOn
Trad climber
NY
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Feb 21, 2012 - 04:09pm PT
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For a great moderate sport route in JTree, try Face It, just to the right of the peyote cracks. Light rack...only one draw needed. You are correct that some JTree routes are bolted in an exciting manner. It adds to the spice!
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Feb 21, 2012 - 04:23pm PT
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If Josh freaked you out, avoid Suicide Rock, Middle Cathedral, Glacier Point Apron, and then there's Tuolumne...
Face climbing (both up and down) is a skill that takes practice. I for one kind of lose my face climbing chops when I've been away from it too long. Spend some time and rubber on those skills and it will pay off handsomely.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Feb 21, 2012 - 04:41pm PT
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This thread reminds me of the best route advice I ever heard...
Was endlessly working a proj at Jailbouse and asked Tom Addison if he had any good beta.
"Don't let go" was his succinct reply.
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Grampa
Trad climber
OC in So Cal
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Feb 21, 2012 - 05:07pm PT
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I think people are confusing "run out" with "decking". I personally don't mind a runout if I am well off the deck, or a ledge with my name on it. I very rarely remember worrying about decking on most Suicide, TM or Apron climbs.
I've been to Josh "a few times" and IMHO, God put the crux at exactly 20'7" on almost all face climbs.
Being "vintage", I don't bounce so well anymore, so I can be a very happy top ropper.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Feb 21, 2012 - 05:12pm PT
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I've only been on one climbing outing in Joshua Tree
This would be the problem.
Climb a lot and push your level up and you'll never sweat about that first bolt. You will get there.
Thankfully some climbs have that first bolt at a height for a good reason. It's like keeping the sharp objects on a high shelf away from the children.
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NigelSSI
Trad climber
B.C.
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Feb 21, 2012 - 05:20pm PT
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My climbing partner last year was leading .10's pretty solid until we got to Joshua Tree. Let's just say he was around 4 number grades lower in Josh due to fear factor.
It's not just you.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Feb 21, 2012 - 05:48pm PT
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Ahh, the 'ol "I'll just stay on the crack climbs" gambit...which works well for a while until you find yourself on a typical Josh "crack" that is actually a string of flaring pods, a few of which might even take pro.
Ever heard the saying "sport climbing starts at 12c" ?
Most people hear that and think the speaker is putting down people who don't climb that hard, and that it isn't "real" climbing until that level. But that's not what it means. It means that in old school areas that had a long established ground-up bolting on lead tradition, you wouldn't reliably find routes with "sport" bolting until about 12c.
So one answer is to climb harder routes, because once those old school tuff-gais were climbing at a level that challenged them, they resorted to punanny "sport" bolt spacing too. So either climb routes 1-2 number grades below what you can get up, which is what the authors of the runout moderates were often doing while establishing those routes, or climb hard enough that the bolt spacing decreases.
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Gary
climber
That Long Black Cloud Is Coming Down
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Feb 21, 2012 - 05:48pm PT
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There's a climb that had me intimidated for years. A three pitch runout slab, the first bolt a looong way up. I walked away several times.
Then one day I led that pitch clean. It was a great feeling, one of my best as a climber.
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Johnny K.
climber
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Feb 21, 2012 - 05:54pm PT
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Surface Tension is a good route to look at.Look real carefully....
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