Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
|
|
Wishing Michel Chessler and his customers (both the rich and the poor) a happy, healthy, and prosperous new year. 2012 should be a great great great year for all of us.....with lots of climbing, adventures, challenges, surprises, and silliness.....Climbers are a surley bunch, aren't they......best wishes to you and your enterprises.....I appreciate your services and the vast huge awesome amount of cool stuff you offer to the climbing community, and I hope that those who have had "funny" dealings with you in the past can get over it all and move on;....I've seen your "bristly" side too....(and you've seen mine!)...best to be positive, move on, get over ourselves, look at the positive, and appreciate the fine stuff life serves us on a regular basis.... HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've been looking at some guidebooks I wish to purchase from you in the near future, and I look forward to doing business with you and having "unbristly" dealings with you in the years ahead.......I wish the same for my supertopo friends.
|
|
couchmaster
climber
pdx
|
|
Experienced bookseller quote: "I price it at what I think I can get for it. If it's not worth it to you, don't buy it. If nobody buys it in a reasonable length of time, then I know I've priced it too high."
Don't buy it if you don't want it.
Side notes for folks:
Dingus: speak for yourself on that. Others here will buy from Chesslers.
Ron: that's between you folks. I know you have Layton Kors interest in mind, and that's way cool you are looking out for a bro, but Kor is an adult and can sign anything he wishes for whatever he wants. You might take it up with Kor if you don't think he should be signing things without calling or consulting you first. He is lucky to have you helping as a business partner/helper. Best to you on your future endeavors.
Chessler: stop being so damned bristly and antagonistic. You have a lot of cool sh#t. Just Show your wares, and if people gets sparked up, please just ignore them and let your customers get into it with any detractors.
Ihateplastic: thanks for sharing this, thought your post was awesome and on the money. It's the kind of sh#t we all like to crack wise on, and if Chessler wasn't so damned bristly and butthurt, he'd realize that you posting his latest offering will gain him wide exposure to those who would want that stuff and get him more sales, not less.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
If you guys would just hold fire and conserve ammo ,..
Nobody is impressed by the valor of somebody that shoots fish in a barrel.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
LOL this is funny stuff.
Chessler a rope is still a rope in the end.
Putting an artificial value on something doesn't make it any greater than any other rope.
You're a terrible sales man with dealing your potential customers.
A good sales man man would ignore comments that you feel are not to your liking here.
Instead would say; "I have some other nice items you might like."
"Look around you may find something that may interest you."
There was a rug dealer that was on the street when I was in Mali Africa.
He knew the art of making a deal. He was ever polite and persistent in making the deal.
We yanked his chain for days. But he never got angry and just kept trying to sell his goofy rug to us.
We finally bought one. Not because we needed one or even wanted one but because he was such a good salesman.
If you capture your costumer's heart you will be very successful.
By the way we're well aware the history of your ropes and it's value to collectors.
Knee jerk reactions will just cause you unforeseen problems.
|
|
GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
|
|
I have to say that this thread is an example of the ugly side of STopo.
Somebody decides to put a price on something and sell it. The life long dirtbaggers (like it or not, you are rare and uncommon to the sport) who can't afford it rants on the web.
A sane reaction, if yo think its too expensive, would be to not buy it.
I think you bozos that buy VW vans were foolish with your money... They're junk.
I drive a Land Rover.... People think that they are junk...
To each their own...... Leave them to be.....
You do not want your life choices interfered with, so lead by example....
Let the guy run his biz his way..... If he's wrong, he will go broke.
Sheesh
|
|
GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
|
|
Oh and Ron,
I'm a bit disappointed in you on this.
Your client sold his product for less than you like...
As an AGENT it's your job to manage this.... You should have systems in place to prevent this because you're the AGENT...
Instead your client went around you, got some $$$ without notifying you and ended up dupped (in your eyes).....
Kit should have said "I sign nothing without Rons approval.
I buy and sell things....
I always try to maximize my position...
That's why your an agent... To prevent too good a deal for the buyer...
You let this one get by. No harm, but lesson learned?
|
|
GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
|
|
Werner,
Good post
|
|
GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
|
|
Riley Wyna
Trad climber
A crack near you
Jan 2, 2012 - 09:12am PT
"I have to say that this thread is an example of the ugly side of STopo."
Bullshit - it is an example of the power of the internet.
Dreamer
|
|
Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
|
|
I have a SWEET collection of sun-rotted tat from major routes around Yosemite Valley and from Tahquitz, where American rock climbing was born.
PRICELESS!!!
|
|
Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
|
|
"I think you bozos that buy VW vans were foolish with your money... They're junk.
I drive a Land Rover.... People think that they are junk..."
Dream on!
|
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
i just want to encourage michael to keep the account with chris. it'll be good advertising for so many of his products, and a welcome development on ST itself, where we get lots of junk advertising from businesses that have too much money to spend for the wrong reasons. michael's business was built up over the years, aimed at an important area of interest. he's a good businessman and should not be criticized for standard profitmaking practices.
i was managing editor of couloir magazine for a time, and we got into quite a tangle with one of our advertisers for criticizing one of his products in a standard roundup-style product review. because i had worked for years in newspapers, i was able to teach the publisher how to take a professional position with that. readers will be attracted to product reviews if they are honest. if they turn into promotional pap, readers begin to ignore them. honest criticism might hurt your product today, but it'll also give you the opportunity to retool and redevelop. a critical world isn't necessarily the most comfortable, but it does keep improving.
personally, i think journalism is pretty much dead everywhere it's supposed to exist, but the internet has taken its place, and it actually does a better job. that means forums tend to be pretty rough-and-tumble, but they hold your interest, and they have far greater freedom than what the traditional press has any more. you don't have professional journalists and editors filtering out the chaff here. there's lots of stuff that isn't worth reading. but there's no substitute for first-person participation.
cheers, michael, for posting here. i've always appreciated your catalog, and i'm glad to see you're doing well. there should be many, many businesses like yours. hang in here. we can learn from you.
|
|
Ain't no flatlander
climber
|
|
The real irony of this ST sh#t-show is that he's asking a fair price for those ropes.
To answer BVB's question, yes, climbing-specific ropes were made since 1864 when the British Alpine Club created the first standard. Manila comes in different grades and only the best were suitable for climbing because they were smooth on the hands and supple for better handling and less drag. The red strand was the quality mark of the era rather like a UIAA hangtag today--nobody would climb on a rope without it.
|
|
bergbryce
Mountain climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
|
|
This ranks up there with the gym owner in Reno who went online to tangle with the forum monkeys who were calling out his gym.
This thread would have slid into obscurity quickly if Chessler himself hadn't made an appearance. Now the sharks are circling.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
Well I don't care about the price on the ropes, but I'm a little tired of waiting for a response, and while I would like to honor LK's request to leave it alone I am too outraged by some of the claims made by email.
MC wrote me questioning my motives, claiming he was Layton's biggest benefactor, and asserting that nobody in climbing gets $50 for a signature like Pete Rose.
Well Layton may not have the fan base of Pete Rose, but what we lack in size we more than make up for in devotion.
Yes, that's what he gets (and sometimes more). He is a legend among legends.
Trouble is he is also the nicest guy in the world and not well schooled in financial planning.
Because of that several people have taken advantage.
As for MC questioning how long I've been his manager and suggesting it is another ST inside joke; I assumed the role in preparing the Mackay show a few years ago, although it is nominal as there is no contract and more importantly, no percentage.
And other climbers caught a bit short, like flanders, tar, Bird,philo, jello, and Tyrus have gotten my Benjamins because, although fortunate now, I know what it is like to be short.
I'm sure if down the road I need help it will be there.
Because the real inside joke on SuperTopo is that it is no joke. Amidst a sea of trolls and hate there exists a small community of real people who don't hide behind avatars, but who show genuine concern for each other, and act out of more than self-interest.
For me it is an obligation, a tradition of my people. But it is a happy fact that many others here enjoy the same sense of fulfillment and community.
If MC would take a little time to get to know us he might get into the groove.
|
|
Ain't no flatlander
climber
|
|
Ron, you were a minor player in the Macky show. If Layton is getting $50/signature, it's purely for charity not actual value. Nothing wrong with that but call it like it is.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
Michael, ignore the silliness. The usual armchair critics, hiding behind anonymity. As you adopted the pen name "bookie" - a double entendre if ever I saw one - you seem to know what these forums are about. And it speaks volumes that you know the red thread tradition for manila ropes.
I suspect a fair number of people here envy you. After all, you get to collect and admire all sorts of neat books and artefacts, meet a wide variety of climbers, and make a living doing it. Without being beholden to others. Those here with minor collections of memorabilia perhaps wonder what it's all worth, and whether they could make a living buying and selling such things. It's probably pretty hard to do so, and all too easy for outsiders to criticize middle men/agents.
We've never had business dealings, although we met at the VIMFF in 2003. I occasionally trawl through your site, but haven't bought anything so far.
As it arose, I'll generally comment on fundraising for various good causes, as we often see here. First, it's often a bandage for the governmental, social and economic inadequacies, particularly in the area of health care. A busted system, and (sometimes) poor individual choices. That said, we are something of a community, and helping others is generally a good thing. My preference is to donate directly to the person(s) needing help, once the need is legitimated. I don't need to bid on someone else's junk/treasures, and I don't need autographed knick knacks. Sweeteners for some, not for me. And I don't need it to be in context of some special event, or be publicly acknowledged - all I want, and too often don't get, is a polite thank you from the recipient, if only so that I know the donation was received.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Sounds like Anders is the envious one .....
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
Sorry, Werner, not at all envious. I'm sure that Michael has some neat stuff, that it would be nice to read or admire. And an interesting job. But I already have more than enough stuff - some of which has personal meaning to me but perhaps no one else. Whether it has any monetary value isn't of interest to me.
Although possibly Michael would be interested in adding some Wernermabilia to his line.
|
|
deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
|
|
I always had good dealings with Chessler, and I'd consider him one of the key players in the record of climbing history and memorabilia (along with the likes of Marty Karabin and Stephane Pennequin).
He's on the profit motive, of course, but how could he do what he does if not? It's also likely that a lot of what he pays for might never offer any financial benefit (i.e. no buyers).
He came by my house prior to our move from Australia and handed me a couple K bills for a bunch of books and stuff--I'm sure eventually he'll make a sizeable profit on it, but it will take a while. The main benefit in my mind is that the stuff that does sell will be going to individuals who see value in it, which is better than the dumpster or some storage locker where it would have headed otherwise.
Chessler is really just in the re-distribution of stuff of value; things that would likely otherwise be lost or forgotten. Some people are willing to pay for it, some not.
|
|
Banquo
climber
Morgan Hill, CA (Mo' Hill)
|
|
Chessler is ok, I've been dealing with him for over 10 years. I haven't met him but I have spent some time chatting on the phone with him. He has pretty much everything, the quality is good and the sales can be great. If I needed to cash in the 400 or so books on my shelves, I would probably contact him first.
Nothing has established value until somebody buys it. I suspect people will pay $200 for an old rope and be very happy doing so - I can't see why this should be an issue with anybody.
As far as getting old gear and books signed, I hear people griping about him all the time but it never seems to be the people who did the signing.
From his posts, I suspect he is a newbie when it comes to internet forums and doesn't know that you have to have a pretty tough hide to survive here. I remember when I first posted on forums getting all worked up about some prick but eventually figuring out that you just need to ignore the chaff or just go away. As they say, everybody is an a-hole on the internet.
Edit - on rereading this, the last paragraph might sound like I am dissing Ron, nothing could be farther from the truth. The guy I am calling names was a troll who used to post on a bicycling forum about killing cyclists with his car and also posting gloats whenever the papers reported a cyclist killed on the road.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!