Obesity

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monolith

climber

berzerkly

Oct 12, 2011 - 05:24pm PT

Yeah, run to work, like this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tQA3Tvkg_s&feature=player_embedded

I've met and run with this guy. Inspirational!

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2011 - 05:27pm PT

Its just like the alchoholics who cry poor me i have a disease. Bullsh#t. Your a rageing drunk. Life actually is that simple most of the time but folks can't handle the truth so they make up a bunch of BS to make themself feel better. We are the most over digagnosed society in the history of the world. we got a big word and an expensive drug for every little ailment concievable.. Why deal with the truth when you can pass the buck to a warm fuzzy disease and try to buy your way out of it with doctors visits and drugs instead of willpower and self help.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Oct 12, 2011 - 05:29pm PT

There is the theory that the descendants of many of the Indians who adapted to repeated privations are now obese because of it.

Brandon-

climber

The Granite State.

Oct 12, 2011 - 05:30pm PT

Tradmanclimbs, true.

I've got dontgiveashitimbetterism.

pud

climber

Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia

Oct 12, 2011 - 05:55pm PT

The more intellegent posts here are right on target as far as causes and cures for obesity.

The making fun of fat people posts by 'climbers' makes me not want to include myself in that group.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2011 - 06:23pm PT

Mike.
Yes White.
No College and not all that rich. doing ok now but lived in a tarpaper shack w no flush toilet, gravity feed water, outdoor shower, privy in the back of the woodshed for 21 years.

I am a recovered alcholic. Working in restarunts I have watched a lot of people eat.

Have good friend right now who is white, college educated and sixty pounds overweight. Great guy, hard worker, super natural athlete but drinks a liter of Mtn dew , huge sammich and a large bag of chips for lunch and a bunch of hippy beers with dinner....

Every day is a new day.

gonzo chemist

climber

Crane Jackson's Fountain St. Theater

Oct 12, 2011 - 06:43pm PT

I'll throw in a few stories/anecdotes just for shits.

I have a very close friend who spent most of his life very overweight. He ate like crap, drank booze a TON, and smoked. About 5 years ago (right around the time I first met him) he started dating a girl who was a fit soccer fanatic. She played in leagues and loved to run and work out. I watched as he literally woke up one day and said to himself, "I'm sick of being the way I am." He quit smoking, stopped drinking, paid close attention to his diet and started working out/running 5 days a week. He dropped 65 pounds, plays soccer like a manic, loves to road-bike and mountain-bike, and is damn fit now. Its pretty damn inspirational. And he IS a "working stiff." Its not like he's some out-of-work guy, with ALL damn day to workout, etc. He just made a conscious choice to build it in to his life (inspired by his GF).

I have two other close friends who are hot-shot chefs in Providence, RI. Their jobs are literally to prepare food, and taste, and eat, etc. They have to eat and come up with new ideas and dishes all the time. But they both are thin. Why? Because they understand the importance of dietary balance, and REASONABLE portions.

I have yet another friend who was obese, but got f*#king sick of it. Made a conscious choice to change his life. Here's the story: http://www.theday.com/article/20110929/NWS01/309299958/-1/zip06

Melissa

Gym climber

berkeley, ca

Oct 12, 2011 - 07:07pm PT

It frustrates me that "calories in, calories out" comes across as nasty instead of factual to people.

A lot of people that I love are obese and suffer plenty of health problems as a result. When they talk about their inability to loose weight, they never concede that they are eating too many calories, but are convinced there is some other problem that is solely responsible...generally a problem that is entirely out of their control like genes.

Our desire to be polite and not offend has skewed perceptions of reality enough that, although clearly there are other issues besides simply eating less involved, the issue of eating less and exercising more seems to get lost entirely for some people. In most cases, one needs to make major changes in areas other than food to make the calories in/calories out balance favorable and sustainable, but it will always be the physical basis for weight loss.

Mike F., in your work, how do you factually address this fundamental physical cause of obesity with your patients/subjects (not just the social factors which promote it which I agree are huge)? By focusing on the stuff that's so hard or impossible to change, it seems like people are left thinking that they have no power over their own situation.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Oct 12, 2011 - 07:13pm PT

How can calories in, calories out be construed as nasty? People who think so must be overly poltically correct and math challenged.

Mike Friedrichs

Sport climber

City of Salt

Oct 12, 2011 - 07:22pm PT

Melissa,

I work for public health, so we don't deal with patients or individuals directly. There is a pretty large body of research that shows what works and doesn't work at a societal level. It's all about policy and environment.

Telling someone they are at risk for chronic disease and that they need to eat right and exercise is not effective. Building trails and parks in their communities is effective. Telling people they should eat better is not effective. Having healthy food in schools and at events such as conferences, meetings, weddings, whatever is effective. A policy that I'm strongly in favor of is soda tax and/or fast food tax. The money could benefit schools and research has demonstrated a clear reduction in tobacco use with increased taxes.

Marginalizing the individuals is just complaining and won't do anything to help the problem. Making it easier for people to make the right choice is the way to solve the problem. Colorado has by far the lowest obesity rate in the country and they are way ahead of the other states with respect to policy and environmental changes.

Elcapinyoazz

Social climber

Joshua Tree

Oct 12, 2011 - 07:25pm PT

I have two other close friends who are hot-shot chefs in Providence, RI. Their jobs are literally to prepare food, and taste, and eat, etc. They have to eat and come up with new ideas and dishes all the time. But they both are thin. Why?

Cocaine. Every high-end chi-chi cuisine kitchen in the world runs on coke. Chefs, cooks, dishwashers, the lot of em.

bergbryce

Mountain climber

South Lake Tahoe, CA

Oct 12, 2011 - 07:26pm PT

I don't buy the calories in, calories out argument all that much. It's way to over-simplistic. With that thinking, 200 calories from brown rice are equal in nutritional value to 200 calories in Doritos? Doubtful.

My body responds rather rapidly to changes in my diet. I eat like crap, my energy level is lower, I want to sleep more and I get a little softer around my mid section. I start to remove "bad carbs", sugar and heavily refined foods, the opposite happens, fast.

Elcapinyoazz

Social climber

Joshua Tree

Oct 12, 2011 - 07:38pm PT

In my short lifetime I've seen the rise of the Big Gulp (i.e. 48oz giagantor fountain soda), "Super Size", and candy/soda vending machines in schools that students can access(WTF?!). "Scooters" in every store and Jerry Springer specials where the cut the side off some poor bastard's house because they're so fat they can't get them through a doorway and are so far gone they need medical attention before they keel from sheer fatness.

My best friend in grad school was about 370, on a 5'6" frame. Great guy, amazingly talented musician. His entire family was "normal" sized and his brother ran marathons. No genes problem there. And truth be told, I never really saw him eat anymore than I did. Weird.

I've got a 30" waist. I can't find a $%&* belt that fits that doesn't have Spiderman or Spongebob on it.

You have a 9-10" drop between chest and waist? Forget about buying a paired-suit, you're only getting separates, even "athletic cut" suits only have an 8" drop and normal is 6". I saw a pair of 54" waist jeans on the shelf the other day.

Good, fresh, healthy food is expensive compared to the HFCS filled, packaged crap. Ever try shopping in the ghetto? It's ridiculous. The grocery stores in downtown Atlanta or bad sections of New Orleans...good luck finding something remotely healthy in there.

Is there a point to my incoherent rambling? Not really. Just random thoughts on obesity, man.

slidingmike

climber

Oct 12, 2011 - 07:44pm PT

When my friends down a Guinness/Murphy's that has more calories than the donut I'm stuffing into my face, we're not actually craving nutrition, we're craving a different kind of satisfaction.

Actually, this is a misconception. Guinness Draught is one of the lightest beers out there by density and by calories; it's caloric content is equal to that of most light beers. Notice how it floats on top of an ale in a black & tan. If you're gonna drink beer, that's the way to go. Damn, I think I gotta go find one now!

(and it's about half the calories of most doughnuts)

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Oct 12, 2011 - 07:45pm PT

It is not nasty Jim just insensitive to people that try to eat healthy and moderately but still struggle with weight problems.

It is just easier for some people rather than others. It is in our software.

But the morbidly obese? Give me a break! Look at what some of them eat.
No effort no pity!

Use a stick to wipe your butt if you have to and buy another goddamn seat on the phucking plane.

Norwegian

Trad climber

Placerville, California

Oct 12, 2011 - 08:12pm PT

i got behind in my bills so
i left my tree work for a desk job.
i just turned in my consulting hours,
260 hours, and every minute of that swath
i was sitting idle in my chair pushing buttons
and flipping pages.

no climbing of late as my bills are getting caught up
and my november deadline is looming.

i see this as a potential path to obesity.
its a pysiological problem,
it is also a cultural symptom
as we celebrate excess at
the cost of our personal health.

so's now i wear this stone jewelry, obesity shield around my kneck,

matisse

climber

Oct 12, 2011 - 08:54pm PT

It frustrates me that "calories in, calories out" comes across as nasty instead of factual to people.

Because it is true on one level and not on another. The problem is complex:

Obesity is a fat deposition dysregulation problem. Fat regulation is controlled by insulin, insulin levels increased by sugar. Not all calories in are equal- the basis of some diets low in carbohydrates. you should check out the research on ingesting certain types of nuts, if I remember the studies correctly in subjects on a controlled diet replacing some calories by ingesting walnuts resulted in weight loss that could not be explained by the calorie totals-fascinating stuff.

The second thing is that it doesn't take much of a misjudgement of the calories in calories out equation to result in weight gain. 75-100 calories a day too much (i.e. a small cookie) is 8-10 pounds a year, multiplied by a few years is bam - you are a great big fattie.

Things get interesting when you consider basal metabolic rate which varies hugely between individuals representing the hidden calories out that you don't have much control over- except to say that if you have subjected yourself to episodes of starvation it has the effect of lowering your basal metabolic rate, and if you are someone who has a low BMR to begin with and it responds briskly to lowered intake by a further reduction, it is much harder to have a negative caloric balance than someone who has a high BMR that doesn't respond.

So when I watch the S/O's congenitally skinny family, who exercise less than I do, chow down on more calories for breakfast than I will eat in my entire day, all the while proclaiming moral superiority for their attention to weight management, I grind a few molars.

That doesn't give a pass to all of those other factors like eating huge portions (a notable feature of american restaurants as any foreigner will tell you), and living your life like a slab of veal and all of those other complex social factors, but it isn't as simple as food calories in, exercise calories out.

Peter Haan

Trad climber

San Francisco, CA

Oct 12, 2011 - 09:29pm PT

Thanks for that Matisse. Very true. Here is my story to add to this discussion.

I agree Ron too. Jim Donini, love him to death and have been a friend for forty-one years, is not usually sensitive and being what---a size 3---would not understand the problems of obesity like some of us who find it actually a strange and very challenging problem. Matisse really bears down on the issue just above.

There is no question, the epidemiology of obesity is terrible. Not only is itself rampant in this country but it shortens the lives of those so afflicted in a multitude of ways which are also epidemic now. And alongside these problems, usually obese individuals are stigmatized insidiously both in the workplace and socially. Obesity also seems to be viewed in athletic communities as a sort of atrocious moral failure. Many people cannot see fat people clearly.

It is true that the incidents of obesity stemming from actual endocrinological dysfunctions are quite rare and that obesity is mostly flourishing from diet and inactivity, despite protestations to the opposite. This is just medical fact. In short, the complaint of some obese individuals that their problem is glandular or similar, in most all cases would be invalid.

However many fat people are caught in a variety of very difficult traps that would be tough for anyone to overcome, believe me.

In my case, I have severe arthritis in both knees, acute in the right (it's bone -on-bone), not to mention my right hand and shoulders to a lesser extent. It has been mounting for a bit more than a decade now, as the last of the cartilage disappeared from that right knee after a million hours of extreme use, wear and a number of acute traumas to that leg while skiing, bouldering and surfing the last four decades. Originally back in the day I was perhaps fitter than anyone on this Forum.

Upon losing almost all my considerable source of income during this recession about mid-2009---it was like a death in the immediate family---I became not only far less active (as a hands-on builder, heavy equipment operator and climber) but also clinically depressed as a result. The weight appeared out of nowhere it seemed and I gained 70 lbs in four years, thirty in the last ten. As Matisse above says, the little incremental nature is insidious. During these bad times, I taught myself Photoshop and went to a lot of happy hours in my community and of course worked on the articles that have made their way here on Supertopo and Alpinist Magazine and the American Alpine Journal. But moving around and playing was really not something I wanted to do at all. My typical exercising was not at all comfortable any longer; my outlook and emotional life had deteriorated dramatically, and with the weight I became clinically diabetic (type II), making weight gain an even bigger problem and far more persistent an issue than when I was in normal health---it doubled up this sickness so to speak. This all resulted in a massive regimen of meds taken to protect and save my life. These in themselves have side effects that further the desire to stay sedentary...the spiraling downward is very hard to resist.

My solution, finally, is to get the knee totally replaced and resume many of my old optimistic pursuits and projects. This is supposed to happen 30 days from now. It is going to be quite daunting as the surgery and recovery will take months, money and one hell of a lot of painkillers and physical therapy. I will lose most all of this weight I have put on eventually but do realize that to do this, it will require a tremendous amount of new steady effort and positive thinking on my part to maintain the view to daylight.

After I became fat (to put it honestly) I did come to a completely new understanding of ‘what it is like to be fat’ in social situations and in work. This has been my own "Black Like Me" experience. I had always wondered what being fat was like back when I could do one arm pull-ups and outrace Bridwell down talus slopes, namely even when I was in perfect shape.

There is a remarkable problem there for the obese. Many people will marginalize you if they can; some will feel better in so doing, as they are ‘superior’ after all. It’s quite primitive actually. You will often be invisible to those whom you find deeply and importantly attractive. It will seem worse than your aging. Some friends will feel terrible for you; others will try to escape the relationship or minimize it, their view of you now badly blurred. You will have a lifetime’s wardrobe you can’t fit in and will be pushed into the plus sizes, humiliated as the inevitable truth burns through---the practical reality of being giant rubbed in your face even at the simplest stages of the day. Others even will find you hard to listen to carefully, as they find you repellent and ‘globally wrong’.

Everyone must try as best they can to be healthy but it just is not that easy. There are very very few people on this Forum that are actually optimal especially in their later years. They may not be obese but they may very well be defaulting in other ways perhaps not as stimatized. I now look at obese people with a great deal of sympathy and understanding. I wonder inside as I try to search out how they might have grown to twice their size or more, and so disabled really. With nearly half of us in the USA obese, understanding the problem in depth is going to be quite important and using the Lord of the Flies methods will do nothing but great and further harm.