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Tobia
Social climber
GA
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Sep 16, 2011 - 10:45am PT
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When I was a mere lad my dad took us to Teton National Park (1966). We stayed outside of the park in these little cabins with a small stream meandering through the area; not to far from the cabins. It was a beautiful setting and would love to experience that remoteness now.
It was a wide stream but no more than 2 ft deep at that time of the year either late July or early August. Anyway my four brothers and I started building a damn to pool the water; boys being boys. The whole stream bed was covered with rocks 6" to 14" inches so we could move them with ease as I was 10 yrs old with and my brothers were 5-14.
Before long we had a series of dams across the stream with my father and sisters assisting. It was pretty cool engineering for us. We aren't used to crystal clear water with stone bottoms being from the south (green water with 12" of mud at the bottom known as "criks").
After a day of building we were all playing in the water admiring our work when a 1/2 dozen LEO's come rushing in. Our imaginations were running wild as we youngsters were thinking someone had been attacked by a moose or grizzly or something real heinous. We couldn't understand why they had my dad circled and separated from the rest of us. The LEO's were all circled around my dad in some heated debate.
After what seemed like an eternity to us they all left except one and my dad told us we were breaking the law and had to dismantle the project.
Years later my dad told me that they were arguing about whether or not to arrest him or not because he was refusing to cooperate with them. My father was furious at their methodology and numbers to handle the situation. He didn't see the need for storm troopers.
I can understand the matter of the disruption to the natural environment now; but I will never forget the storm troopers or our work.
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Sep 16, 2011 - 10:55am PT
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I think it is fine and a natural way for people to express themselves in the wild. Most of these formations are transient at best and subject to the whim of every person who walks by. Few last beyond a season. One of my favorite rock-based art is on the hike out to Table Rock.
And no I did not do it.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 16, 2011 - 11:38am PT
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It is quite debatable that the above is 'transient'. Looks like it would
take a lot of work to remove and restore.
A nice sand mandala is the definition of transitory.
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Sep 16, 2011 - 02:16pm PT
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You're absolutely right, which is why I would never do it. However, my point is that it is truly transient. Within the last 5 years I have seen it be a circle, a winding path, and a rock heap as people have walked by and determined that they wanted something else. A few years after the apocalypse it will looks like an other nondescript flat spot in the middle of nowhere.
This is on the other hand....
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hooblie
climber
from where the anecdotes roam
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Sep 16, 2011 - 02:28pm PT
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how about the leaving of cairns that lead to nowhere. covered by the first amendment?
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Sep 16, 2011 - 02:32pm PT
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We had cairns at our wedding. I guess I prefer the metaphor of following cairns better than aisles. Although it's been said that I ought to be able to find my way without them, experience has taught me that I can't even find my way with them half the time, so I take what I can get.
Chicken Skinner...you haven't said how YOU feel about them or what you do when you encounter them. It sounds like the amount is bugging you . Have you been knocking them over or letting them go? Sometimes they bug me but never enough to turn my day over to getting rid of them.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Sep 16, 2011 - 02:48pm PT
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Those things are all over the Saline Valley near the hot springs and along the road. Probably put up by the same people who bang on those friggin drums till 3am. The rocks are ok, I the drums however I would classify as vandalism.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2011 - 10:54pm PT
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Art?
or cairn convention.
Ken
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Johnny K.
climber
Southern California
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Sep 17, 2011 - 11:08pm PT
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Gilroy
Social climber
Boulderado
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Sep 17, 2011 - 11:24pm PT
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I like to encourage the transient nature of these constructs. Kinda' nudge them toward entropy in my personal effort of trail maintenance and pretty much agree with the sentiment that if you need those sort of things, you may not belong back there.
When I sign a summit register it's usually my initials and 'Cairn Kicking Climbing Club.'
KG
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Sep 17, 2011 - 11:25pm PT
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I say Art...they'll be talus again soon enough...and no more egregious than, say, a visitor center, a horse trail. a parking lot, or a shuttle bus stop. I support the right to build 'em... and the right to knock 'em down.
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jfs
Trad climber
Upper Leftish
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Sep 17, 2011 - 11:38pm PT
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Buncha old grumpuses around here. Of the "Damn you kids!!! Pipe down and get off my lawn!!!" variety.
They don't bother me. Some of 'em are kinda neat. Some of 'em are boring. I don't build them myself though.
I've never felt like my wilderness experience was ruined by 'em. Knock 'em over if you need to but don't let them ruin your fun. If they do...well...loosen up a li'l bit wouldja???
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MH2
climber
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Sep 17, 2011 - 11:48pm PT
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They usually don't bother me. I got tired of seeing them up in the Enchantments after the first 300 or so.
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aguacaliente
climber
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Sep 18, 2011 - 05:50am PT
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I get why people don't like huge cairns every thirty feet. I don't either. But I don't get the "you're ruining my wilderness experience" objection, because most of the objectionable cairns are also on pretty well-traveled trails where the sign of humans is present. Don't have a fantasy that you're John Muir when you're on a trade route, ya know.
A few weeks ago I packed in and camped to hike a Colorado 14er. I built a little cairn - like 5 rocks worth - at the turnoff to my campsite because I knew I'd be coming back down tired and might walk past it, since the tent was in the woods and not visible from the trail (standard practice, yes?). Of course, when I came back 7 hours later, someone had already scattered the cairn - even though there are still a bazillion useless cairns on this popular trail above treeline. I was alert enough to remember the turnoff anyway, but it was an example of how someone's always gotta be more holier than thou.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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Sep 18, 2011 - 11:44am PT
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If you are on a trade route why do you need cairns?
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yosguns
climber
Durham, NC
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Sep 18, 2011 - 12:56pm PT
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If you are on a trade route why do you need NO cairns?
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Ben Harland
Gym climber
Kenora, ON
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Sep 18, 2011 - 01:51pm PT
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For, we must never forget that if there was not one thing that was not on top of another thing our society would be nothing more than a meaningless body of men that had gathered together for no good purpose.
 The Royal Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things
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