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ec
climber
ca
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Jul 12, 2011 - 04:37pm PT
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Flossed?
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Jul 12, 2011 - 04:39pm PT
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Thanks Randy, that puts things into perspective for me. I think I was confusing arbitration .vs. mediation.
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Jul 12, 2011 - 05:06pm PT
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In terms of criticizing the SAR response, keep in mind that they are volunteers. They do not sit in a station ready to respond to a call.
The sheriff determines that there is a need for a technical rescue and calls the team. That may take time. The team then pages its volunteers to come in from whatever activity they were engaged in. So the volunteer may be 30 minutes up a trail with their family and now needs to get home, get their gear and report. They are briefed and then move into the field. Some may be comfortable on cliffs yet concerned about showering more debris on already injured patients, while others may be on the team for their medical skills, navigation skills, etc. Most never were or will ever be good techincal climbers. However, they do know how to move a battered victim without causing more damage or creating more patients.
Helicopters are quite tricky, and resources are very scarce with the wars taking most military resources out of the NW. Dust, snow, cliffs all present hazards which may cause a helicopter to crash. Victims being transported by choppers have been in choppers that went down, and their families have sued for plenty. So if the chopper won't land near a dusty scree slope, there is probably a very good reason why. The boat across the river saves hours of moving the litter back towards the bridge.
During an operation, many folks may not have a task to do at that moment in time. They may be waiting for the patient to be assessed, packaged, another part of the system to be set up, etc. It is as agonizing for them to be still for a moment as it is for you to watch someone suffer. The banter between them helps them deal with a very stressful situation. From the many missions I have participated on, it always seems to take forever. But the medics are doing everything they can to ensure that the patient won't be further injured, and they really want to reduce the pain with meds if they can.
If you think you can improve the overall rescue operation, then join. http://www.dcsarinc.org/ My husband and I plan to do so when we move to Redmond full time in a couple of years.
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Richard
climber
Bend, OR.
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Jul 12, 2011 - 06:18pm PT
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Thanks Seamstress for the defense. I volunteer with DCSSAR (Deschutes County Sheriff's Search and Rescue). We had folks on scene in about an hour. Getting there in that hour is damn good considering the drive from Bend is 1/2 an hour. Adding the time for callouts, assembling, deploying, and hiking in......!!!
Crossing the river is by far the fastest and easiest way to access this area. The hike over Misery Ridge with the gear needed would take considerably longer. And we do two or three missions every year in this area, mostly hikers twisting of breaking ankles on the switchbacks.
And without re-saying what seamstress said about the Helo....she's absolutely correct.
Seamstress.....If you're interested in joining us, lemme know:
richard.adler@deschutessar.org
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 12, 2011 - 08:30pm PT
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Are the police investigating what happened?
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Jul 12, 2011 - 11:36pm PT
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Were the swingers already doing their thing when the involved party arrived?
Cuz when I see antics happening I usually split.
Lame and unfortunate accident. Hope everyone heals up.
Loved Monkeyface...no other parties around.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Jul 12, 2011 - 11:50pm PT
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Tragic and shameful all at the same time..
Thoughts to the survivors
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jul 13, 2011 - 12:06am PT
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hey there say, seamstress.... wow, thanks for sharing all that info, for to help all of understand what goes on, for these rescues...
*hard stuff, too...
thanks for the share...
:)
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Jason D
Trad climber
mn
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Jul 13, 2011 - 09:53am PT
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I was there but didn't see the actual accident. I was climbing First Kiss and had just left on the traverse pitch when I heard something going on. It looked like a guided group to me but there is no mention of that in the article. On the way to First Kiss I stopped to watch the group crossing the slack line into the cave. It looked like a bunch of teenage kids with two or so older adults.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Jul 13, 2011 - 11:55am PT
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Cuz when I see antics happening I usually split.
Cuz when I see antics happening I usually split.
Cuz when I see antics happening I usually split.
Cuz when I see antics happening I usually split.
Cuz when I see antics happening I usually split.
Cuz when I see antics happening I usually split.
Cuz when I see antics happening I usually split.
Amen bro. I hate mooing and baaaaaing at a crowded crag.
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Paul T
climber
Bend, Oregon
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Jul 16, 2011 - 06:48pm PT
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This was a most unfortunate accident due to bad timing, a lack of awareness, and poor foresight on the part of the rope-swinger. This event will inevitably result in greater awareness--as any accident of this nature does.
As I have stated in a verbose post on cascadeclimbers.com, I find the decision to chop the anchor bolts for the rope swing to be a misdirected act, which fails to get at the real issue. I have done this particular rope swing at least 5 times in the past--as have many others--without any issues; all it takes is a healthy awareness to make it a safe and invigorating activity. I'm sure that if bolts/anchors were chopped on a popular route due to one individual's negligent decision that resulted in an injury, the climbing community would be quite infuriated. The principle here is the same, regardless of whether one likes/dislikes the idea of rope-swinging.
I've known Ian for many years, and believe he had good intentions in his actions. None the less, I still feel that chopping the bolts was a rash decision made in a semi-dictatorial fashion, which fails to get at the root of the issue. I am excited to see the bolts replaced, and individuals utilizing the swing responsibly in the future.
-paul t
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Jul 16, 2011 - 09:55pm PT
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Someone is still laying in a hospital bed and you are talking about putting the bolts back in. Remember, it wasn't the person on the rope swing that was critically injured but innocent passerbys.
Sounds like you are willing to assume the liability for said swing bolts and any injuries/deaths/traumas that may occur from their use.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jul 16, 2011 - 10:46pm PT
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Well, Paul has a point. It is as though someone takes it upon themselves to cut every climbing rope in the Pacific Northwest.
The problem is not the ropes.
The problem was not the bolts.
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Jul 16, 2011 - 10:50pm PT
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Ian is the state park employee, ranger. Like 99.9% of the rock out there, it isn't owned by climbers. You have to abide by the management decisions made.
Don't screw it up at a place where climbers are embraced. Heck, the formations are even labelled. If you want to swing, put one up in your yard.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jul 16, 2011 - 11:00pm PT
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Seamstress, Ian writes:
I work for state parks, but I am not a ranger at the park. This action was completely off duty.
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chris vaughan
climber
bend, or
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Jul 16, 2011 - 11:15pm PT
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Sounds like you are willing to assume the liability for said swing bolts and any injuries/deaths/traumas that may occur from their use.
Sensitivities aside, do you realize where this "logic" leads?
So now I've gotta go chop my routes and find all my tat to keep the lawyers off my case. Alan Watts is F'ed! I can't imagine how many broken ankles and crushed egos that guy is responsible for? (sarcasm in case you didn't pick it up)
Aside, Ian is not a ranger (as he clarified here or in CC.) Further more, if he were, he would be under greater obligation to explain his actions.
I wretched a little when someone says "oh so your a ranger,... then it must be ok" Regardless of the policy or action, our government officials are accountable to us. We deserve their explanations... OK, that is a bit unrelated sorry for the rant.
Perhaps there should be another thread separately discussing bolt removal in this case. I am stoked that Liz was upgraded to fair condition and maybe this thread should be focused on her and her partner's recoveries. But, it is what it is.
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Darwin
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jul 16, 2011 - 11:32pm PT
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Rope swinging is what 6 year old kids do when I take them to an indoor gym. Maybe you should expand your horizons?
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Jul 16, 2011 - 11:39pm PT
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OK - Ian wasn't operating in that role. I don't think we should be devolving into a little bolt war over a swing. We got it pretty good at Smith.
Perhaps I am a relic of the past - concerned more about people and the ability to climb. If we get "out of control", they will manage us. Yikes.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jul 17, 2011 - 12:06am PT
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I am certainly not an advocate of rope swinging, not anticipating that I will ever partake.....however, that does not put me in a position to instantly judge that the activity is not worthy of being done at Smith Rock, or anyone else.
For all I know, rock climbing should be banned in favor of rope swinging, which I'd imagine could be done in far fewer places. I don't seriously advocate that, but I don't think that advocates of one sport get to decide that another sport should be the one banned.
That is certainly the position that single track riders would like to take vs hikers!
Taking precipitate action in the immediate aftermath of an accident, with the attendant emotion involved, sets up the precident for how things will go for dealing with climbing related incidents, which will almost always end up being bad for all involved.
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Paul T
climber
Bend, Oregon
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Jul 19, 2011 - 06:32pm PT
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Taking precipitate action in the immediate aftermath of an accident, with the attendent emotion involved, sets up the precident for how things will go for dealing with climbing related incidents, which will almost always end up being bad for all involved.
Perfectly articulated. Thank you!
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