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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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A lot of passionate opinion and reaction here, some of it ill informed and presumptuous. I like Rolf's thoughts and am hypersensitive to climbers waxing possessive of something that they don't own or contribute to and indulging in holier than thou, hypocritical pontification. Makes me want to barf.
The Shannon Creek basin was ravaged by my fellow loggers years ago and ain't no frikkin wilderness. The First Nations hold no lofty moral ground here and would murder the last otter and fall the last old Sitka if either were still here for the taking. BC Parks is a hollow husk of an institution and in dire need of a rethink and revitalization.
Real estate developers and local municipal "planners" are converting Squamish into a town full of condo dwelling commuters clogging the Sea to Sky Hwy with single occupant vehicles and doing all their shopping in Vancouver. No "Smart Growth On The Ground" here, no sustainability and rather, a community increasingly vulnerable to isolation from routine, minor geological events.
The proponents have clearly indicated that the proposal is in a preliminary conceptual phase and that they are attempting to consult with all affected parties. No done deal here.
How about this for a novel concept.
Maybe the proponents are committed do doing it right.
Maybe it's an imperfect but good idea that will contribute to quality local recreation and a more sustainable local economy.
Anybody have a better idea?
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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gf,
I agree and am suggesting assiduous review as the process unfolds rather than ill informed speculation and negative prognostication before all the facts are in.
pb
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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gf,
Good points, the math has to work and bear scrutiny.
Maybe the proponents are extrapolating from the 1400 people a who hike the backside of the Chief on a nice day. Way less work riding a gondola for a similar or better view.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Greg and Perry seem to be discussing different parts of the same elephant. My biggest concern is that the proposal would be marginally financed, based on overly optmistic projections, and leave a big mess. Sorry, Bruce - that's what it would be. There's also the big question, THE FUTURE OF LIFE AS WE KNOW IT IN SQUAMISH. (Every few years some mega-project or other is proposed, supposedly in answer. If only the world was so simple.) But then there's the questions as to what if any development should occur in the Klahanie lands, below Shannon Falls, and now also the gravel pit at the base, and upper Shannon Creek. It may be better from the outset if the developers acknowledge that given the constraints, they need every facility and activity they can fit in, to make the thing pay, and that it all needs to be synergistic with the parks.
Real estate development in upper Shannon Creek seems improbable - no road access. A honeymoon hotel and conference centre may work. Restaurant, hiking trails, mountain bike trails, cross country skiing - all likely to generate traffic. Still key to generate traffic during the week, and from October - April. A huge unknown. Real estate development at the base might not generate much traffic/business, unless it was hotel and tourism oriented. Again, running into the seasonal problem.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Sorry, maybe I could be clearer. Simply observing that the gondola proposal needs to be seen and assessed in context - it's not an isolated thing. And given the changes in Squamish over the last 30+ years, there are many things to consider. Both the project in isolation - that is, examined carefully, does it make economic and other sense - and in context of the parks, the Squamish area, and so on. Greg's angle seems more the immediate economics and practicalities of the proposal, Perry's the larger picture.
Another perspective might be that there is limited land in the area for developments of this kind, almost always depending on both private and provincial land. An overall plan for the provincial land - most of the land outside the valley - seems wise, rather than a piecemeal approach.
There's no turning back the clock. The primary industries that were long a bedrock for Squamish's economy, such as logging, the mills, the railway, and the port, have been declining in absolute and relative importance for decades. That's not likely to change. At the same time, Squamish has increasingly become a commuter suburb for Vancouver and to some extent Whistler, and a service base for Whistler. Primarily a residential and service economy. There is some manufacturing and industry, but whether it can grow is unknown. The new university may take some time to find its feet. Still, outdoor recreation has become much more important. I agree with Rolf - its economic contribution is often exaggerated. Still, quite a lot of people have moved to Squamish in good part for recreation, including climbing - Perry was one of the first. The recreation may grow in small increments, but is a big part of the community's culture, and has significant economic benefits. And we need to get past the mindset that "only primary industries and manufacturing count".
We can never solve Squamish being half way from Vancouver to Whistler - that's geography. But the perennial "big project X will save Squamish" and "let's do what they did at Whistler" mentality isn't the way to go. Squamish has a long, proud history and culture, and should keep that in mind.
My overall take is that if the project was to go ahead, it needs to fit within Squamish's larger goals, and needs to be well-financed. That is, do a really good job of it, not just an adequate one. The thing could be an anchor for other things, in the good or bad sense. If it flops, it's a rather large and visible negative advertisement for the area.
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bmacd
Social climber
100% Canadian
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up top:
campground, showers, cafeteria, washroom, hang glider launch, parapont launch, trail systems, large telescope, SAR station, concessions, nature tours, mountain biking rentals, restaurant, office for Squamish Guides, guided climbs of nearby peaks, designated alpine camping areas, cross country ski trails, ice climbing, snow shoeing, snow shoe rentals, zip lines
gondola base:
parking, security for parking, trail heads for grind trails to Gondola upper station, via ferrata route to upper station. No other development competing with existing businesses already established in Squamish. Rescue insurance vending machine.
Good grief Charlie Brown aka Anders … how about toning down the negative assumptions for a change ?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Sheesh! Now I have to take the other foot out of my gondola. Perhaps not my day for diplomatic language. Though I was trying to tease Bruce M.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 22, 2011 - 12:37am PT
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Bruce, will there be information sessions in Vancouver also? It would make considerable sense. What dates, times and places have been announced?
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MH2
climber
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Jul 22, 2011 - 12:07pm PT
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Sorry if this was covered earlier.
There are already large crowds that stop at Shannon Falls. Will the gondola be close enough so that they could/would walk to it from that parking?
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MH2
climber
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Jul 22, 2011 - 02:36pm PT
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And I'm guessing the gondola wouldn't be pay parking, for a start? So as not to discourage customers. I am curious because on big weekends with fine weather, parking is getting to be in short supply.
I wish the train would put in a stop at the south end of the Malemute.
If the gondola caught on there might be buses headed there from town, too.
I love the drive but would like other options. I'd sell a piece of my soul, the part that would object to looking down from the Bulletheads into a parking lot, for other ways to get to and from Squamish.
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Hoser
climber
vancouver
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Jul 22, 2011 - 02:56pm PT
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Unless there is a grouse grind type trail up to this Gondola I find it hard to believe the loop trail at the top will attract that crowd.
The price for Grouse is 39$ for a day and 98$ for a year
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 24, 2011 - 04:19pm PT
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It sounds like it is economically a marginal proposition. Which in turn means that the proposal should be scrutinized very closely. If it goes bankrupt (or equivalent), who will clean up the mess? Worse, will some shyster pick it up for pennies on the dollar, claim to be saving the situation, then go nuts with unacceptable activities and developments?
The developers would lose their money, true. But Squamish, and the parks, would be left with an indelible, negative advertisement.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 16, 2011 - 05:36pm PT
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Has anyone been to any of the open houses? What happened? Any word as to whether there will be open houses in Squamish's southern suburb, aka Vancouver?
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