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Chris McNamara
SuperTopo staff member
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Always thinking about this issue but still coming back to this answer:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=501284
Non-climbing threads on the SuperTopo Forum are fine. If you could only talk about climbing here without slightly going off topic the SuperTopo forum would not be the place it is. However, off topic threads and political ones in particular have a problem: they get a small group of people riled up to post a lot real fast. By comparison, a really good trip report is enjoyed by more people but doesnt necessarily get as many comments. The result is the cool climbing trip reports often get bumped down by non-climbing threads... which is a bummer. The number one mission of this web site is to create a great resource for climbers about climbing.
How to address this issue? some people say put all the off topic stuff in another forum. we have thought a lot about that. however we always seem to come back to this: one of the reasons the supertopo forum is cool is because its all in once place. other forums are so split up you have to surf around from forum to forum. there is something cool that arises when everything is in one forum. There is also the giant issue of actually sorting through posts and making sure they are in the right place.
There is a balance. Hopefully most people will focus on providing info related to climbing on the forum and just occasionally post about non-climbing stuff. If a person's only interest is in non-climbing topics, I think everyone would appreciate it if that person found a suitable forum out there more appropriate for their interest. There is a online forum for EVERYTHING.
Since anyone can post as many times as they want, there is the ability for a person or group to steer the entire forum to reading what they want by bumping their topics to the top. If a person or group chooses to do that, the forum is no longer as free and open a place because they are taking disproportionate control of what the rest of the forum sees listed on the top. We hope people will not abuse this power and for the most part people don't.
So I will make my annual request to the forum: please err on the side of replying too often with a thoughtful/witty response to a climbing thread you find really informative, funny, etc. And, please err on the side of resisting one liner replies, personal banter, attacks etc to the non-climbing threads.
Thanks to everyone who is making this site a better climbing resource.
Chris
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Captain...or Skully
climber
The Seas of Stone.
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Such is the way. Strewn with pitfalls.....{{sigh}}
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Somebody wrote the (awesome) script to hide certain posters (hiding threads started by a small # of people cleans the site up quite well).
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/forum.php?f=30&b=0#forum
Somebody could write a thread-deleter script, probably... yould work be with a little button overlay, or something.
Or if you were really good, you could write a program that deleted any thread where x% of the posts were from a customized list of usual suspects (e.g. tagging it as OT and automatically deleting it).
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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well, since we're addressing chris directly here ...
chris is a real climbing professional, from what i know of him. outstanding el cap climber, author of books on bigwalling, BASE jumper, product reviewer, founder of supertopo publishing, and, by extension, this jolly good website and forum. as far as i can tell, chris's whole life is climbing and related outdoor recreation. am i right, chris?
at that point, we have a bit of departure. climbing was attractive to me from the outset because it wasn't professional. it was wonderfully, iconoclastically, democratically amateur. you did it because you loved it and it did great things for you. if anything needs to be isolated, in my opinion, it's professionalism in sports, and there's a great place for that, the sports page of the newspaper, where it keeps many obsessive idiots out of everyone else's hair.
i got onto supertopo about a year ago and felt immediately at home. a few people i knew anyway, have made a few friends as well, and yea, maybe an enemy or two, but that's life. like a good campfire, you talk about what you want. if you don't like the conversation, you simply betake yourself around to the other side of the fire--or you try to shove someone into it. old climbers know about this. chris came along with the kinder, gentler generation.
many of the people here, as has been the case of many of the top people in climbing, have rich and interesting lives apart from climbing. we have scientists, academics, professionals in other professions, successful business people, even some successful artists. climbing means a lot to them, and they make the campfire pretty interesting. i was surprised, meeting jim bridwell for the first time a few weeks ago, to find him holding forth on an esoteric book of philosophy which would be right at home on any of the "god" threads we have here. yea, his yarns about moose's tooth would have made your average ST TR look pretty tame, but jim wanted to talk philosophy. there are lots of climbers like this, and that's what makes climbing special. try talking philosophy in the locker room of the los angeles lakers.
so, rather than follow chris's admonition here, i'd like to make the opposite challenge to chris. come on 'round the weird discussions once in awhile. weigh in. put your cards on the table. let your hair hang down. these connections are good for people and good for climbing. there are actually times when the subject comes full circle to climbing itself, and when that happens, you know both subjects really "belong".
slater, old fellow, can you handle more than a 5.2 conversation?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Has anyone pointed out that the reason ST has so many 'hits' is because of OT bantor and sh#t-talking!
Is that possible?
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WBraun
climber
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How to address this issue? some people say put all the off topic stuff in another forum.
You don't need another forum.
All you need is a tab at the top that says "Off Topics"
You already have different tabs for your stuff there .....
(Put a tab there that says "OFF TOPICS" ... Just try it ... experiment)
Or just remain caveman duh duh grunt grunt duh duh dduh ....
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go-B
climber
1 Corinthians 6:19-20
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I concur!
Although everyone overlooks my posts every day, so it can be done!
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Brian More
climber
Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
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It is a good point, brought up earlier in the thread, that the site benefits from all of the "hits" related to non-climbing topics. "Hits" = ad revenue. What's good for the goose is good for the gander...
I read through the forum topics almost daily and click according to interest, subliminally absorbing product info from various ads as they appear on the periphery of the page... rarely, if even once, connecting into a purchase.
Still, based on this logic, we ought better to let C.M. run his business and use our discretion in matters of personal taste.
It's silly to think that C.M. can sustain this site for free, or would want to.
Brian More
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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chris has raised this issue before, and it may have a simple solution. is it possible to program a TR thread so it'll last a bit longer? sink slower than the other threads?
taking a look at a typical ST "front page", the so-called obsessive threads that slater complains about--god, politics, the latest on LEB--don't comprise more than 4-5 out of 30. what's the rest? community events, technical discussions (ST is a tremendous asset for this, with mountains of experience to answer any climbing question), welcomes, news commentary, and i think everyone's favorites, the off-the-wall queries about things like dating women who don't shave their legs.
ST works. don't fix it. give the TRs a little edge if you like, although a really good TR hardly needs it.
and yes, chris, there is an online forum out there for just about everything. there you will meet nerds and dweebs and engage in dialogues which can only be described as suffocating. on ST, you're among climbers. we have a basic understanding of each other. it's both heaven and hell because we know how to push each other's buttons. we really have a rare, precious thing for a mixed-up modern world: a common culture.
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pbernard02
Trad climber
Chester, CA
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go tom, go tom, go tom.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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While I IGNORE the threads I don't care about (based on the headline) it is clear that many of these so-called OT threads appeal to many, many people.
I guess I look at it this way, when you are sitting around the REAL campfire in C4 or Patagaonia do you ONLY talk about climbing? Do other topics EVER come up or is it all about, "Dude! did you see that whipper I took from Chungafinga Direct? I tried to dab the gnarl but lost it!"
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enjoimx
Trad climber
Kirkwood, CA
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PLease dont change the order of the forum. Just let it be.
Why does everyone want so much regulation and categorization? just let the forum exist in its chaotic beauty.
Also, forums that are categorized and layered tend to be a PAIN IN THE ASS to navigate, as load times for different menu's start to become a true time sink.
The simplicity of this forum is the main reason why it is one of the ONLY online forums I post to. I hate navigating forums trying to find where I should post. This forum is nice because you just post what you want to say, and people can either read it or ignore it, but at least it is bumped to the top for a consideration.
DONT CHANGE SUPERTOPO!!!!!!
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enjoimx
Trad climber
Kirkwood, CA
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1) Sort by a calculated value that's weighted, such as (last_post_date x category_weight). TR's could have a higher weight, so their sort values would trend higher than non-TR's.
2) Group the items. Sort by group_type, then last_post_date. So, all TR's would show up on top of all non-TR's, and within those groups it would be sorted by most recent. Because of the quantity of TR's, there'd have to be a limit on the number of TR's displayed.
3) Popularity of readers . Right now, the posts are implicitly sorted by popularity of posters (represented by level of recent activity). If they wanted to go hog wild, they could add a "vote" system, which would allow explicit popularity declaration by readers. Threads with more votes come higher in the list.
4) Allow user choice. Simple setting that lets users customize their experience a bit. It can even be done such that the user doesn't have to log in (cookies).
Who will manage all of this? who will pay for the updated technology and/or code? Advertisements? Great. Supertopo will become soo irrelevant if it starts to be categorized and micromanaged. Look at rockclimbing.com. Every time they update their user interface, well, the first time they did it, I never went back. I have been to that site, maybe twice, in the last two years because it resembles an advertisement, a commercial enterprise, everything opposite of climbing.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Misc. Forum (OT shite) -
never gonna make it.
I'd never click that link....
good idea,
It'd be better than censorship or public hangings...
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MH2
climber
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That was a balanced nicely considered reply from Chris Mac.
Here is why I would like to see a little change, though:
Posts to off-topic threads clearly bother some users. Those of us who post to such threads should take that into account.
Here is what I would like to see change:
Could we post in a way that would not bump the thread to the top? The "edit" button doesn't bump.
This would leave choice in the hands of the user. Probably not all OT posters would be considerate about not bumping, but probably enough would to cut down on the rate at which OT threads move climbing topics down the page.
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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Perhaps this thread illustrates that you can't make a static solution that pleases everyone.
I've suggested before a slightly more elaborate solution that allows people to customize their own views in a way that lets people see it the way they want to see it, without continual re-writes by the ST developers.
Just do it right once on the back end, then you're free of this dilemma!
I'll try to dig up a prior post where I wrote up an informal product requirements document that would meet the needs of everyone who has posted here.
Edit:
Somewhere I wrote it up better, but these are the best I can find for now
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1060287&tn=16
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1024035&tn=57
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Mar 18, 2011 - 11:53am PT
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I participate in another forum where there is a main forum page (like here), but you can click on "on-topic" tab and the page reloads with only the self-catagorized on-topic posts (or off-topic if that is your choice)... It works very well without fully splitting up the conversations.
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