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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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I agree that living on $7.25 an hour sucks. An earlier poster pointed out that the labormarket is unfairly depressed by illegal alien cheap labor, and I agree.
Chaz-if they want to eat, maybe they should simply "go home!"
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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When I was a kid, kids worked at places like fast-food joints. Now people my age are staffing those places.
You ever wonder why?
One reason is the high minimum wage discourages empolyers from taking a chance hiring a green kid with no work history. Why hire someone who may or may not produce enough to cover his wages - or even show up to work reliabally - when for the same money you can employ an actual adult who's proven to be a reliable worker?
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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"behind every fortune there is a crime." -- balzac
"i always wanted to be a philanthropist, but i couldn't afford it." -- donald ward
so, how'd you make all that money, skip?
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Lolli-
I'm retired and my Socialist Security income is even less than working at minimum wage. I worked darned hard at my profession (manufacturing chemist) for 45 years and was very frugal. I made sure that my retirement years would not be in pauperdom. Still, it's not easy to live on $1100 a month; just for energy costs (electricity and heating)and food plus gasoline eats that up quickly.
I don't believe that anyone here is advocating hardworking people trying to live that way--it's simply a function of big government really screwing things up through bad legislation in the past, and spending beyond it's means.
It has been pointed out that the labor market has been severely perturbed by a huge supply of illegal alien labor willing to work off-paper at substandard wages, thereby depressing the wage to "minimum" wage level for "legal" labor.
Skipt- I'll bet that you don't have a monthly mortgage to service, and at one point you did something similar to what I did--made sure that you were relatively debt free.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Acknowledging that this topic has evolved to a discussion of hourly wage - I would like to opine about on the subject of infrastructure.
As in California's infrastructure died a long time ago.
This was never more noticeable to me than a few weeks ago when I had to drive from the Central Coast of California to Portland Oregon. My route took me up the 101 to the 152 to the 5 where I stayed until reaching my daughter's place in SE Portland.
It was absolutely astounding the difference in the infrastructure and upkeep of the freeways compared between the two states.
As a Californian, I thought I was adequately inured to accept potholes, broken concrete, tons of trash and four foot high weeds in the medians and closed rest stops as being the "norm" for all major highway systems. True to this ideal - this is exactly what I saw on my entire path through the Golden State.
(Footnote - oddly enough, the filthiest freeways were in the Metro Sacramento area - within sight of the capitol building - go figure.)
However, once I passed into Oregon - it was amazing! For the next 5 hours until I reached downtown Portland - not one weed growing up through broken tarmac, no trash blowing around the median dividers, ALL and I do mean ALL of the rest stops were open and working - some even offered hot coffee!!!!
It got so bad that I had to restrain myself from tossing some garbage out the car window just to make myself feel at home.
Yet what really confounded me was the question of how can one state with all of its millionaires and billionaires, all of its internationally known companies, all of its mansions and movie stars have such a third world road network when some little state a fifth of California's size with a reputation for rain, logging, cheese and not much else can yet still manage to maintain their infrastructure as such noticeable levels?
And if that wasn't enough of an insult - they had lower prices on California grown produce and a better selection of beers than I can get back home.
They even had people who would run out into the rain at gas stations to fill up your car for you??? And I still paid 20 cents less per gallon than I do in self-serve California!!! I had to apologize to the first guy who pulled that on me - I thought he was some homeless dude scamming me for a buck.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Skipt-
I do something similar; I burn lots of firewood in a good freestanding woodstove for heat. I have a freezer filled with beef that I raised here on the ranch. I have probably 10 acres of woodlot on my place, and it provides me with more than enough wood from blowdown and deadfall every year.
I also agree that education takes one out of the minimum wage slave economy; I have a graduate degree in chemistry and paid for it myself through a graduate teaching assistantship supplemented by the Viet Nam era GI Bill benefits, since I also served a 3 year hitch in the army.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Let's keep in mind that the min wage is TEMPORARY until a budget is passed. Cali has failed to pass one on time for at least 2 years in a row.
The people who do not like it can quit and find work elsewhere!
Lolli, I have worked for minimum wage. Sure it was when I lived with my parents in HIGH SCHOOL! Education IS very important. But, there seems to be a sense of entitlement and lack of work ethic now. As Chaz said, illegal immigrants largely do the work that American youth used to do.
Have you ever seen private business not give raises one year, or lay off workers because of lack of profit? Why the the State gov't or Fed be any different.
I congratulate Arnold on this move.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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RickyD--
I worked in Oregon for 3 years 2006-2009. It is a very nice clean state, and doesn't seem to have that "welfare state" mentality, even tho' it's a pretty "liberal" place politically. As Fattrad keeps pointing out--demographics. Look at the demographics of the 50% that has dropped out, and is looking for that next government program.
What is being ignored here on this thread is the fact that nationally we are in more than a recession, it's truly more of a depression. The economy is actually contracting, in spite of the smoke-and-mirrors government figures on economic production. Companies are NOT hiring, they are downsizing to survive. The state employees have been on the gravy train for years, and now they too are going to feel some pain. Being a state employee has never been about productivity, and some of what they 'produce' is grief for a lot of other people.
It also has to do with the once-great production jobs--building automobiles, washers, refirgerators, computers, etc. have all been exported. The leading export of the United States today is JOBS!
End of Rant!!
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Tell ya what Blu..
Quit your job. Start applying for a new one. Report back to this thread in 6 months and tell us how the job search is going.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Tell ya what Blu..
Quit your job. Start applying for a new one. Report back to this thread in 6 months and tell us how the job search is going.
What's to blame for the lack of work? What's to blame for the lack of reimbursement?
State workers have had this coming Cali for a LONG time. I would take a low-paying job if I lost my job. I'm proud to say I've never collected unemployment. Always took sh#t jobs and worked my up.
People need to quit belly-aching....
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Bluering and I need to climb together--we could have a helluva good time with a mutual diatribe against....just about everything!!
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apogee
climber
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"People need to quit belly-aching...."
bluering, you are a classic, out-of-touch, 'I've got mine, screw everyone else' Repugnican, in the truest sense of the word.
Assh*le.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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bluering, you are a classic, out-of-touch, 'I've got mine, screw everyone else' Repugnican, in the truest sense of the word.
I work in electronics manufacturing and Dingus has almost all right. What would I do if I lost my job tomorrow???? Prolly deliver pizzas, Home Depot, or whatever until I found better.
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apogee
climber
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"What would I do if I lost my job tomorrow????"
In the interest of your own enlightenment, I sincerely hope that you walk into your job very soon to receive a pink slip, and are then faced with supporting your family, keeping them healthy, paying your mortgage, and keeping the lights on in your house.
It will be interesting to hear your opinions on a range of issues after you have been seeking a job for months, your unemployment benefits have been cut off, you then found a job delivering pizzas for $7.25/hour, you've lost your previous health insurance because COBRA cost as much as a month's worth of pizza delivering.
Until something like this happens, your posts make you out to be classically out-of-touch, and you look like an assh*le. Best to just shut it, 'cuz you don't know what the feck you are talking about.
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nb3000
Social climber
Bay Area
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As for the OP, its just posturing. Schwarzenegger says he'll do it, Chiang says Arnold doesn't have that power, and both cite laws supporting their own position and contradicting the others'. Schwarzenegger did the same thing last year, but the legislature passed a budget before the reduced wage could kick in. So maybe its not really posturing if it actually works.
A Bachelor's degree is the new high school diploma.
Skipt and brokedown are on to something: reduce your need to earn, reduce your need to spend. Its the only way out.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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I will admit to that.
Three years ago I held a third level management position with a major telecommunications company. I had started on the ground level 18 years before and had learned and earned my way up the ladder on my own.
My people and I were directly responsible for the mythical 99.99% reliability factor for ALL of my company's fiber based data transmissions in three western states. I had the company car, the home office, the "real" office, the salary, the perks and the bonuses. Fat and Happy middle class life was figgin good.
A few tech crashes later combined with a depressed capital economy and whammo - you get the handshake and the buyout and you damn well take it.
Only things happen.
Your investment firm "loses" 55% of your money during the first few months of the banking crash. So much for aggressive investing.
Someone in your family actually gets sick - and you find that COBRA can go from merely being crazy expensive to "not in my lifetime" expensive.
And your house loses 60% percent of market value from two years earlier and your bank loses its mind and jacks rates and fees all over your ass - and you get the point.
But what really sucks is that 3 solid focused years of sending out resumes and networking to the point of puking has yet to find a position where I can even come close to what I had before. For the moment, I keep the bills paid and the lights on with a brainless job at a third of the salary...and am damn happy I have it to...because every day I meet people who don't.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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My "investment firm" is me! I have most of my $$$ invested in the ranch operation, in cows, implements, etc. I prefer to trust my own judgement in financial matters which is better than any investment counsellor. We are led to believe that we can have financial security by making investments in instruments in which we have zero control. There is a market that can be manipulated, sold short, has all sorts of derivative investments that are nothing other than hot air that we are supposed to "trust."
Tangible investments are always solid: Gold, Silver, cows, collectibles, artworks, etc. never vanish in smoke. Poof!
In my case, it's a choice. I choose to live something of a minimalist lifestyle. I don't spend if I don't have. California needs to operate in a similar manner
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MisterE
Social climber
Bouncy Tiggerville
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 6, 2010 - 11:27pm PT
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Thanks for the information about the Governator doing the same thing last year, I didn't know that. Makes me feel a bit better about the possible infrastructure melt-down.
Rick: Wow - what a difficult and aggravating situation. I feel for ya, Man.
Appreciate all of the input on this from everyone else, as well (Bluering being the exception)
Erik
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Duke
Social climber
PSP
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Higher taxes are fine if you are not shouldering the burdon. When you are paying 6 figure personal state income tax in CA ( as a result of NOL suspension by the legislature) where that same tax would be $0 in NV, TX, SD, FL, etc. you move yourself and your business.
The state is culling taxpayers. That is part of the reason CA is in this financial mess.
Great climate, but not worth the cost.
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nb3000
Social climber
Bay Area
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Here is a link to a similar story with a couple more details:
Schwarzenegger orders minimum wage for workers
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has ordered the state controller to cut the pay for most state workers to the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour due to the lack of a budget being in place by the start of the fiscal year, which began Thursday.
The governor was expected to make that order, which affects about 200,000 state workers, though the timing was uncertain.
State workers who experience pay cuts would be reimbursed once a state budget is in place. Most state employees are paid monthly at the end of the month, so if a budget is in place before the end of July, they would not receive a reduced paycheck.
Administration officials maintain they are required by law to reduce worker pay in the absence of a budget.
In a letter to Controller John Chiang, Debbie Endsley, the director of the Department of Personnel Administration wrote, "Today is July 1, 2010, and there is no state budget. Regrettably, we must take the steps ... to adjust wages and salaries during this budget impasse."
The administration made a similar order in 2008, but Schwarzenegger waited until the end of July to do so. Chiang defied that order and was sued by Schwarzenegger, but the budget impasse was resolved before a judge made a ruling in favor of the governor.
Chiang appealed the judge's decision and oral arguments were heard last week. A subsequent decision could still be appealed to the state Supreme Court. The administration has argued that it is bound by law to slash pay to the federal minimum wage without a spending plan in place, while Chiang has countered that doing so is actually a violation of the law.
In response to the administration's actions Thursday, Chiang released a statement saying he would not comply with the request until the courts make a final ruling and calling Schwarzenegger's order "political tricks."
"Because of the limits of the state's payroll system, there is no way that his order can be accomplished without violating the state Constitution and the federal Fair Labor Standards Act," Chiang said in a statement. "In short, his demands will do nothing to solve the budget deficit, but will hurt taxpayers by exposing the state to billions of dollars in penalties for those violations."
Six public employee unions that represent about 37,000 workers would be excluded because they have agreed to contract concessions that gave them an exemption from such an order. However, those contracts have yet to be approved by the union membership or the Legislature.
In her letter, Endsley wrote, "We anticipate passage of a continuous appropriation (from the Legislature) for these bargaining units before the end of the month."
Assembly Speaker John Pérez, D-Los Angeles, said he was "deeply disappointed" by Schwarzenegger's order.
"This is not a realistic proposal to save the state cash any more than his budget plan, which kills 430,000 jobs, is a realistic proposal to close our deficit," he said in a released statement. "Using working families as leverage is not the kind of leadership we need to get through this budget process."
The state's largest public employee union, SEIU Local 1000, along with the union representing prison guards, have yet to reach agreement on contracts. An SEIU spokesman could not be reached for comment.
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