Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Northern Mexico
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 17, 2005 - 02:12pm PT
|
If I walk up to someone and shoot them, it was their Karma.
Get hurt in a accident, it was your Karma.
Nothing is random.
When you figure that one out your life will make much more sense.
Juanito
|
|
tofu turkey
Social climber
Phoenix, AZ
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2005 - 02:14pm PT
|
As a veteran, which one of you pussies are going to ask some young soldier if they are willing to die for a mistake. This stay the course talk is exactly what you would expect from pussy chickenhawks. The best thing we can do for our troops in Iraq is to get them out as soon as possible. And now that we have installed an Islamic Republic there, the sooner the better. The second best thing we can do for them is to supply them with the best equipment possible, they are still not supplying National Guard with body armor.
Personally, I would love to see the draft reinstated. Get the Bush twins and Paris Hilton on the government payroll. I bet you Paris would make a great Army slut. And while they are at it, get rid of the don't ask, don't tell policy and draft Cheney's dike daughter too.
|
|
Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2005 - 02:24pm PT
|
There's nothing that's hard to understand about how an ear evolved from vibration-sensitivity into the "complex" structure it is today. Every stage in between is useful. Give it up. Science marches on. It proved you guys wrong about gravity, the flat earth, the earth at the center of the universe (the sun, too!), racism (remember the whole "dark skinned people were burned by god" bit?), and the same will be true for evolution. The whole ID thing is just a little death gasp of one more crackpot theory that science has to be in conflict with faith..
As far as Iraq, you guys have already lost. It just hasn't quite hit the fan yet. You've got 57 percent of people thinking that bush distorted the facts to get us in there. Senators are openly calling for a plan for withdrawl. It's over.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2005 - 02:27pm PT
|
Juan, karma implicates one to repeated birth and death in the material world. How do “You (Mr. Juan)” extricate yourself from this bondage?
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Northern Mexico
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 17, 2005 - 02:34pm PT
|
I do not become attached to anything.
I see everything as imperminant.
I do not run away from any emotion be it pleasure or pain.
I wish happiness and an end to suffering to every living being.
I wish nothing for myself.
Everyone I encounter during the day I offer a loving smile.
I serve others.
I like in the moment.
My enimes will become nothing, my friends will become nothing, I will become nothing.
Juanito
|
|
bob d'antonio
Trad climber
boulder, co
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2005 - 02:39pm PT
|
Fattrad wrote: Bob,
Why, because they want to destroy Israel, control France and Spain, eventually convert or kill all Colorado residents.
The Plan - Try giving them a little taste of political, religious and economic freedom and see if they like it. To be able to offer them the taste of freedom, the exsisting regimes must fall.
Fat- I don't believe it. Nice Generalization. Christians also want to convert the world.
|
|
bob d'antonio
Trad climber
boulder, co
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2005 - 02:47pm PT
|
Fat-do you consider Bush one??
I thought 50 lashes was enough.
Just kidding.
So is Saudi our next stop??
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2005 - 02:58pm PT
|
Under the NPT, the US is supposed to be making progress toward eliminating all it's nukes, yet we are developing and building more.
Not only that, we changed our defense posture to allow for using Nukes against non-nuke enemies in an offensive, rather than defensive manner.
So it does seems funny that developing WMDs, even if true, is much of an excuse when you're the only country to have nuked anybody and threaten to do so in the future.
Also seems funny that we would resurrect the spanish 1918 flu that killed tens of millions, and post the genome on the net. It's only a matter of time before any tin pot dictator will have the bio resources to replicate such a thing that could easily be smuggled here. What's up with that?
Peace
Karl
|
|
Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2005 - 02:59pm PT
|
I don't count Mormons, Robertson or Dobson as legitimate convertors.
Hmm. Well the GOP most definitely does listen to Dobson. You can't possibly deny that.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2005 - 03:00pm PT
|
Fatty, if it happened in the states he'd have the ACLU on his ass.
Seriously though Fatty, we understand how repressive these regimes are. A lot of them are terrible. But invading Iraq will not solve the problems there. It will further radicalize the population, as we are seeing happen now.
Our past meddling has put and/or kept many of these problem regimes in office. I have little faith that further meddling could help.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2005 - 03:12pm PT
|
And since we are dropping quotes today, here's a gem from earlier this week from Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, hardly a liberal Bush Hater, on the importance of speaking out about the war:
"The Bush Administration must understand that each American has a right to question our policies in Iraq and should not be demonized for disagreeing with them," Hagel said in a speech before the Council on Foreign Relations. "Suggesting that to challenge or criticize policy is undermining and hurting our troops is not democracy nor what this country has stood for, for over 200 years ... Vietnam was a national tragedy partly because members of Congress failed their country, remained silent and lacked the courage to challenge the administrations in power until it was too late. Some of us who went through that nightmare have an obligation to the 58,000 Americans who died in Vietnam to not let that happen again. To question your government is not unpatriotic -- to not question your government is unpatriotic. America owes its men and women in uniform a policy worthy of their sacrifices."
Nice speech, Senator!
|
|
Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2005 - 03:27pm PT
|
Jody, if saying that you have your head up someplace where the sun never shines when it comes to politics is insulting, then you are too sensitive. If this is the case, don't try being a novelist or actor because the rejections would destroy you. You need thick skin for those things.
As far as losing the political debate and resorting to personal attacks (and it wasn't as such, I have nothing personal against you and admire your photography), I am just amazed that somebody can think that dissent is treason.
That's all (until later).
Edit
It's later.
Yes Fattrad, I'll comment. So what else is new, we know that there are a number of elements (and fundamentalists) in islamic society/culture who hang on to (extremely) outdated views and practices. But what if, just what if, there is a considerably larger portion of islamic moderates?
Anyway, I am a pacifist and liberal (not left winger, though I have played on the left wing in football, right wing too and as a centre forward, midfielder etc) but you damn well may see a not-so-peaceful side to me if you try to force your religion down my throat - any religion, islamic or christian.
Edit
Too true, Karl
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2005 - 03:28pm PT
|
Fatty, how do we know there were no WMDS in 1998? That was four years before Bush made his case for war. Anything could've happened to them in that time. Or, Clinton might have been lying or received bad intel: if he was lying or had bad intel, at least he was wise enough not to start a war over a false claim of WMDs.
I've hesitated to use the word "lie" but Bush's inflation of one side of the pre-war intelligence on WMDs while hiding contrary evidence from lawmakers is deceitful.
|
|
bob d'antonio
Trad climber
boulder, co
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2005 - 03:31pm PT
|
Fattrad wrote: Whenever or however we leave the middle east, it won't be any worse than it is/was. Read a poll today from Jordan that says that most Jordanians think the Israelis did the hotel bombings. Funny, since Al-Queda is taking the credit.
No it won't be any better either...people don't care about democracy when religion is involve.
A lot of republicans still think there are WMD in Iraq and a connection between OBL and Saddam. Funny, since there is neither.
|
|
tofu turkey
Social climber
Phoenix, AZ
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2005 - 03:36pm PT
|
Nature,
I assume that the Republican that you voted for was McCain, what a shame. To be honest, McCain is the only elected official that has done something for me personally, but after his endorsement for Bush beginning in 2000, it has become obvious that he's been drinking the cool-aid. If someone trash talked my wife and children, I'd be beating his ass, not hugging him and endorsing his presidency. McCain is nothing but a sellout, and to think that he took Goldwater's seat in the Senate is simply sad.
|
|
Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2005 - 03:41pm PT
|
Jody, "Nature, you evolved from apes, I was created by God, let's just leave it at that and continue the war debate, shall we?"
Not bad Jody, but just a tad bit disingenuous.
Dirtbag, yeah, pretty good speech, considering where it came from.
Tofu Turkey, good point about McCain. I think/thought he was a decent bloke too, but you are right, by toeing the party line and endorsing somebody that tried to destroy his reputation (The ole' Bush Rove one two), he did come across as a bit wimpy or kiss ass or whatever. Of course, I use 'wimpy' knowing that the guy suffered hell as a POW - probably would have destroyed me.
|
|
malabarista
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2005 - 03:50pm PT
|
I just watched Murtha. Brilliant. This house of cards is crumbling.
|
|
tofu turkey
Social climber
Phoenix, AZ
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2005 - 03:52pm PT
|
Jody, thanks for recognizing my service, I appreciate it. But now we must help those that are still serving.
|
|
tofu turkey
Social climber
Phoenix, AZ
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2005 - 04:48pm PT
|
Jody, I think the belief about the military voting for Bush is a fallacy. During the last election, most states awarded their delegates to the electoral college before the absentee military ballots were ever counted. To say how the military voted is only a guess. But considering that Iraq war vets are coming back and running for congress as Democrats speaks volumes about the active duty military endorsement of their commander in chief.
|
|
Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
|
|
|
Nov 17, 2005 - 04:54pm PT
|
Thanks for ignoring all my posts, Jody.
Terrible stain? He lied about getting a blow job. Stupid, and mildly evil thing (well as it affected me. I'm sure Hillary has other thoughts about the mild part.) But let's compare that to his successor.
Bush has managed to get 2000 of our military troops killed. The reason changes often. "He tried to kill my daddy. No wait. It's WMDs. No wait. It's to bring democracy to Iraq. No wait. It's to fight terrorism." But the fact remains that it's the Bush administration that pushed for and ultimately pulled the trigger on the invasion of a country that posed no direct threat to the US. And 2000 poorly paid young folks are dead because of it.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!