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Rell Levant
Novice climber
Fern Ledge
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2002 - 02:02pm PT
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People (and climbers) have questioned the pianoskinner teams' ethics (and fashion sense) for years. Their accomplishments, perceived or genuine, are important to people who believe everything they read in the mags, and people who have nothing better to do than spray on the internet.
If they've been chiseling and cheating it will be obvious. they'll have to live with themselves. Some Traditionalist will come along in spring to clean up their sport junk- or clip their fresh bolts.
Love em or hate em, you gotta admit that while the rest of us hardcore climbing ethicists are weighing in on stuportopo
those guys are doing a hell of a lot of climbing.
Wank On,
Rell
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Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2002 - 02:55pm PT
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There was an Access Fund or AAC brochure a while back that had a picture on the cover of Todd free climbing on the Direct. In the foreground was a clean white patch of rock where a small flaked had been broken off to create a nice edge. Enough said.
What about Bridwell chiseling the word GEEK into the top of Geek Tower in large letters? Or the chiseled petroglyph of a bird smoking a cigarette on a boulder in the trees under Native Son/The Trip? Also the work of Bridwell?
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Melissa
Novice climber
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Nov 19, 2002 - 03:00pm PT
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And you know that he broke this flake off? And that it was done intentionally to create a hold? And that the flake wasn't also a hold? If you're gonna accuse someone of bad ethics by name, I think you should really back up your claims.
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?
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2002 - 05:21pm PT
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Yeah- what she said!
And don't fu-- w/ the BIRD baby!
But I have also heard many times that Todd Skinner did mfg. routes that were otherwise unclimbable at certain sport craggs (in WY?) and I always heard it presented as "common knowledge".
I've met him out climbing a few times, nice guy. He jokingly asked me to be his belay slave while he was working Dihedral. (I, of course, told him, "sure pal- just lose the skull cap!" cause he does have that 70s thing going on w/ that bandana, but I digress..)
Anyway, I doubt I'm ever gonna say, "Hey Todd, nice to meet you again, is it true you are a stinkin' chipper? A destroyer of natural rock? A selfish ingrate of mother nature who feels his own ascent is more significant than the rock he seeks to ascend?".
Ethics change.
People change.
Perspectives change.
Stories and even history change.
What should be important now is the climbing community should unite around a never chip ethic and hold fast to it in all cases.
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Melissa
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2002 - 05:28pm PT
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Yeah, what he said except for one very important thing...I vote that Todd keeps the bandana. He's pretty long in the tooth for a pro climber, and time hasn't been so kind to his hairline. All you guys should wish to look as good as Todd with the bandana, IMO.
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donny
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2002 - 05:41pm PT
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f*#k you!
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?
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2002 - 05:56pm PT
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Don't worry Donny-
None of those other idiots can touch your SLAYER tatoos.
You are the MAN, no doubt about it.
As for Skinner, w/ a name like that, how can he not go for the Michael Jordan? He's missing a golden opportunity, IMHO.
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reality
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2002 - 06:37pm PT
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Skinner's not really climbing. Please see:
US Patent No. 5,255,452: Method and means for creating anti-gravity illusion
This invention relates to a method and means for creating an anti-gravity illusion effects for entertainment purposes.
This invention relates more particularly to the creation of such illusion by means of specialized footwear and accessories therefor. The specialized footwear is provided with means for engagement with a movably protrudable hitch or post which allows the entertainer to lean forward on a stage at a very acute angle relative to the stage floor to achieve the illusion of defying gravity.
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Dorothy
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2002 - 06:44pm PT
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You are not witty.
You are not witty.
You are not witty.
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reality
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2002 - 07:02pm PT
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oh come on, it was at least mildly interesting! besides, i don't care what anyone says except michelle
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dee
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2002 - 06:42pm PT
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Todd and Paul are nice, here is their recipe for fame.
Aid climb pitch=AID
Rappel pitch (chip, pry and clean)=AID
Dog the f*** out of pitch=AID
Redpoint pitch=FREE
REPEAT AD NAUSEUM= FREE ASCENT
REWARDS-North Face, National Geographic etc. sponsorship.
Congratulations!
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huh?
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2002 - 07:10pm PT
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huh?
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Donnie
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 22, 2002 - 06:38pm PT
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Iīll have to agree with Donny (Y). Aid climbing is NOT real climbing and will never be... When a real climber (gym) can free a stupidass wall and place nice bolts to protect it, itīs only a good thing. And if it is not possible to free it itīs REALLY good to add a hold (Leo)or chip one out of the rock (the Nose)as long as freeclimbing is the main thing! Stupid bigwall morons will never get this though...
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DER
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2002 - 12:44pm PT
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Why can chicken sh#t aid climbers add bolts to aid routes and it dont matter but when some free climber does it all hell breaks loose?
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Michelle
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 25, 2002 - 11:56am PT
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uhm, I was out climbing, so, I guess I'm a little late to this arguement. Has anyone thought about asking Todd about this?
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Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 25, 2002 - 12:48pm PT
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that would be great!
"um, hey todd, there a bunch of random and annonimous types slandering you and your ethics (or lack there of) on line, would you mind legitimizing them all by chiming in on the ST forum? it won't do spit to set the record straight, but you will no doubt accelerate the rate at which you are slandered and all that. thanks dude, nice skull cap..."
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Michelle
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 25, 2002 - 01:07pm PT
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I suppose if you look at it that way, you have a point, but what vacuum are you living in? Todd's methods aren't a new debate, I was just wondering if anyone has bothered to get his perspective. I apologize for being mature..
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brent
Novice climber
ep,co
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 26, 2002 - 07:25pm PT
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so I have been a long time advocate of giving skinner sh#t, if it is justly due. I am not a huge bouldering fan...
but it would not be hard if you knew about his elicit and overt chipping and illegal bolting tactics to say that he set the ball in motion to get the place restricted.
He has climbed many things, and never have I heard of him ponying up and revealing his tactics...
In my conspirical mind I don't really believe he freed any of this sh#t...salathe, 1/2 dome, throwin the houlihan...none of it...
once I climber loses his integrity I don't feel it can ever be patched up.
He will siege the leaning tower, then claim something that leo went after in an afternoon...
food for thought, let it digest
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Hammer
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 26, 2002 - 08:09pm PT
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Sounds to me like a lot of you guys are really quite envious of Todd and Paul.
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Alexey
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Dec 15, 2012 - 11:44pm PT
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Interesting old tread from 2002.
I always had a feeling [I can be very wrong] that after Todd and Paul free Salathe (89 ?) -a lot of yos locals aid climbers treat them similar to how WOS team was treated 7 years before.
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