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Rags
Advanced climber
CA, born n' bred
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 18, 2002 - 01:27pm PT
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So Skinner and friends are or were attempting to free WDD. They closed the route? Hardly have the authority, you think?
The real rumor is, did they add bolts where heads used to be just so they can free it? Asshole! If they did, would someone please just chop his dick (please leave the hole). If it's just rumor, sorry Todd.
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Hammer
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2002 - 02:05pm PT
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Sounds like a good reason to replace heads with bolts. Why keep an aid route scary for aid climbers when others can free it? Once an aid route always an aid route? I don't think so.
Go for it Todd.
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Lambone
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2002 - 03:27pm PT
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I don't agree.
I support the Hubers style. They are willing to try and free an aid route without changing the character of the origiinal route. Bold runnout hard free climbing on A4 pro. Now thats respectable.
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Hammer
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2002 - 03:44pm PT
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That is very respectable.
I guess it depends upon the pitch. In some places an 80 or 100 foot fall can be relatively 'safe', in others not so.
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rhodo love
Novice climber
otto, nc
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2002 - 04:10pm PT
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Big air potential never stopped Leo. Maybe they should go for it.
On the other hand, what's so proud about grabbing fixed heads and pulling on 'em?
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FREEclimber
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2002 - 04:30pm PT
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That would be an ENGINEERING feat.
Leo was CLIMBING, you see (I know, it's all very complicated).
Todd Skinner, whether bolting or freeing on WDD, has been known to chip & chisel, and that would be known as MANUFACTURING.
As for me, I am SPEWING.
That concludes todays climbing related vocabulary lesson.
-Fc
Ps- Todd, get over the bandana skull cap! The fashion world has moved on!
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Stupid
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2002 - 05:10pm PT
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what's WDD?
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clueless
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2002 - 05:16pm PT
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who's skinner and why is he so divisive?
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Hammer
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2002 - 06:52pm PT
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Skinner is not divisive, climbers who are not as skilled and who envy his accomplishments in the climbing world are trying to be divisive.
I don't believe he ever chipped or chiseled holds. He and Piana are just very skilled and very tenacious about achieving their climbing goals.
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FREEclimber
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2002 - 07:36pm PT
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Hammerhead-
Not talking about Salathe-light.
Actually it's fairly common knowledge that many routes @ certain sport craggs in WY that were otherwise way too sharp and painful to climb were modified by TS (et al) to be finger friendly. That is done w/ drills and chisels, my friend. I know many people who won't climb those craggs because it's so painfully obvious that the routes are mfg'd.
I am not really up to speed on who did what to what wall and why, & who can say how often that was done in that era & in that area. I have never asked the guy myself, but I say there is no greater crime than carving a ladder into a rock so that you can climb it.
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Stupid2
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2002 - 07:46pm PT
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What is WDD?
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wonderbread
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2002 - 07:48pm PT
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i do believe leo bolted a hold onto el cap. so scratch his name off the list of impeccable style, but he's still a cool guy.
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crystalpsycho
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2002 - 07:49pm PT
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Wall of Dumb and Dumber.
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Rags
Advanced climber
Sierra
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2002 - 07:56pm PT
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WDD- WET DENIM DAYDREAM! OK? It's an aid route on the west face of leaning tower. NOW, would someone please answer my original question. The ethical debate is good. It isn't OK to f*#k up an aid route with bolts that aren't needed, just so you can free the thing once. This would never be a free climb that others could do. You've got to aid climb to get to it for Christs sake.
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Sam
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2002 - 08:08pm PT
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Rags-
Seemed like the debate ended w/ this comment:
"On the other hand, what's so proud about grabbing fixed heads and pulling on 'em?"
As suggested in another thread, couldn't you just hook the bolt and feel like a hard man tough guy aid climber? Or do we have to wait until that seem gets big enough to take a solid cam?Hey- maybe Todd should goup there and Dan Osmand off that thing a few dozen times, just to get the thing big enough to take better natural gear, would that be better? Would that fit into your opinion of better "style"?
Dude- it's an AID climb!
For crying out loud, the whole wall is accessed be a damn bolt ladder, right? So why gripe about a new bolt or two if they are all he needs to allow for a free ascent? Now we're talking! He's actually going to CLIMB it! And who says no one else will climb it?
Besides, you can always cheater-stick your way past it pal...
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Sumdood Hoozrad
Novice climber
CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2002 - 08:28pm PT
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Why gripe? 'cause adding bolts to an established route, free or aid, is lame. Sure you could aid (or free) past the new bolts, but who wants to see ADDITIONAL rock damage?
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Hammer
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2002 - 09:06pm PT
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Fc - I haven't climbed at the sport routes in Wyoming that you refer to (actually I try to stay away from sport routes) so I don't know anything about the rock being modified. But, I find it hard to believe those guys would chip and chisel. I suppose they might have done it when they were young and clueless but I doubt it.
Sam - If you ever climb some difficult aid you won't be so quick to dismiss it as not as 'pure' as trad freeclimbing.
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Ben
Novice climber
modesto
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2002 - 11:02pm PT
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Sam,
go back to your f*#king gym
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crystalpsycho
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2002 - 11:13pm PT
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Sam and Hammer: yes it's true, Skinner does use unethical tactics to "free" some routes. the direct on half dome is a good example. new "belays" in unclimbable sections and YES, chiseled/manufactured holds.
Recently two high profile free climbers had thier minds set on freeing a few pitches of an aid line I established. they said they top-roped it at 13.c but it would require bolts to lead safely. I told them they can go ahead and bolt it but when they were done I would remove the bolts to restore the aid line.
needless to say, they abandoned their free attempt.
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Hammer
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2002 - 08:50am PT
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Crys - Thanks for the info. I'm still having trouble getting my head around the idea that they chisel/manufacture holds. Guess I'll have to see for myself or hear it from them. Just can't believe it.
Someboby put a telescope on them while they're on WDD and see if you catch them chiseling holds. Just can't believe it.
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