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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Feb 12, 2010 - 04:44am PT
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hey there jan, say, i never heard of this... i will send the link to my buddies and see what they think... thanks for the share...
happy to hear from you tonight, on a thread somewhere... :)
god bless... :)
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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Feb 12, 2010 - 04:57am PT
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No chance for relocating? Maybe domesticating for some purpose other than eradication? I don't know all the particulars but if they are causing an environmental impact, isn't there an alternate solution other than Locker's Tail-Pipe, I mean Tail-Gate horse burger fest??
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xkyczar
Trad climber
denver
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Feb 12, 2010 - 10:59am PT
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From "Horses" by Luis Alberto Urea
VII.
In the steambed, the stallion screams. His eyes weep a crust, blood
lays red cracks through his vision. Mane catches fire: small sparks roll
from the ends of the hair, fling about him like droplets. Hooves hit the
rock: lava seeps, steam rising all around him.
The mares turn as one, splash away laughing and fretting among themselves.
They pucker with his scent, their tails rise and their smoke
clouds the entire day. Comanches read the smoke columns from a
distance.
The stallion rears, bucks, bites chunks out of the clouds with deadly
flat yellow teeth.
The mares awaken in their bellies. Ghost horses within kick their feet.
Push at their ribs. Wombs swing wide their gates, the floors slick with
blood and delicious dripping forage.
And he comes. Squirts of barbed wire fly from his loins, trap ten acre
praire plots. Coyotes strangle in the wires; the buffalo stops and stares
stupidly, not understanding his passion. The stallion runs five hundred
miles, his eyes rolling out of his head, brown stones with holes drilled
through. Wide wakes of fire spread behind him, swing open and eat
the tall grass, the homesteads, the tipis, the graveyards: sap in the trees
heats and rises and boils and explodes: a snowstorm of splinters blinds
the tribes.
Astride him, whipping, whipping him endlessly, bone arms howling
like flutes, the dead man, the furious dead man, and heʼs laughing as
he rides, laughing, cursing, shattering as he rides, he rides dressed in
smoke, and he rides.
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426
climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Feb 12, 2010 - 01:08pm PT
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Are you pro-government all of a sudden? Seems kinda weird...after all that tempest in a teapot about omfg big government. pshah sagebrush reberllion.
Sadly though, mm, this reminds of Carrie Dann and her sister, Shoshones who were harangued by the blm mercilessly for years. Let's just sum by saying the Indians lost (nothing to see here, move along)...
Beyond all that, anyone remember back in '25, Johnny Skimmerhorn caught the world's record cutthroat out there; a 41-pounder. Don't blame the horses for the skimpy lil 5-10 lbers you're pulling out of the Truckee and Pyramid. Chortle...it's the horses fault...
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426
climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Feb 12, 2010 - 01:42pm PT
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Ya, it's the horses fault, right...?
Rhetorical question...horses don't fish...no comment on the big govvie blm though? I'm disappointed, what a perfect strawman. Hook, line and sinker(?)
Brookies are a dime a dozen in the sierra...meh. Good little fighters tho...genetically engineered bastards...
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Feb 12, 2010 - 01:44pm PT
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Truckee River?
Winnemucca Lake… or lack thereof?
How many of you anti wild horse folks have actually LIVED in the Nevada desert for months on end? No, not in some stupid house in some stupid city… I mean living in the dirt with the animals, moving from place to place. Seriously.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Feb 12, 2010 - 01:48pm PT
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Late in the fire season we get a fire call. We suit up and load in to the Twin Otter. We head east over the eastern forests and over the deserts of Nevada. We find the fire and a jump spot- a nice saddle between some rocky hills. Spotter throws streamers to check the wind, tells us to hook up, gives us a slap on the back of the shoulder and out we go, four of us, two at a time. I got a little sideways with the wind coming in, and hit harder than usual, but no big deal.
Several hours later, at about 3:00 a.m., we return from the fire to the saddle to get some sleep. I'm dead to the world until I hear some yelling from one of the other guys. I blow off the comotion until I hear thundering hooves. Then about 30 wild horses came storming through the saddle where we are sleeping- narrowly missing a couple of us. Our foreman yells out "everyone alive?" Hearing affirmative responses from all we went back to sleep.
The entire heard had wandered over to where one of our comrades was sleeping- the saddle was a nice flat area for all. He woke up not knowing what was happening, made lots of jerky movements and flashed his head lamp in every direction, apparently causing the stampede. The herd was in the area for the next couple of days. Cool to check them out.
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Feb 12, 2010 - 02:00pm PT
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You’ve lived in the DESERT for all of your life or in a stupid house in a stupid city? Be more specific.
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jiimmy
Boulder climber
san diego
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Feb 12, 2010 - 02:12pm PT
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Sir Ron Anderson and Mr. North....concur completely. Horses are food too!!!!
Cows are pretty cute to some people, rabbits are snuggly, dang those bambis are something. They all have one thing in common, they taste great!!!
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Feb 12, 2010 - 02:17pm PT
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Are you trying to dodge my question, Ron?
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426
climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Feb 12, 2010 - 02:22pm PT
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Mine too, big govvie, bad or good? The sagebrush rebellion needs to know.
Sorry if I was oblique, let me try to put it this way, if you are "truly" concerned about the "native species" you may want to focus less on equines and more on...
But hey, this chit is personal to me. They wrecked the Beowawe Geysers and ruined another fine spring. How many "true Nevadens" even know Nevada had geysers? Get them GIS guys in here I need a map...never mind, I getcha link
http://www.elkorose.com/geysers.html
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Feb 12, 2010 - 03:03pm PT
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So, you live in Carson Shitty and worked in Palomino Valley. That doesn’t sound like much time out in the desert to me. Or did you actually spend time in the desert?
I’m in Kali right now but have been living in a stupid house in a stupid city (Cesspool Reno) for the last month and a half. Aside from the recent stupid house gig, I live in my truck and travel the Nevada desert as much as possible, when I’m not in Yosemite.
I don’t have any direct experience working with wild horses but I have seen A LOT of the Northern Nevada desert and without a doubt, cattle outnumber wild horses by about a zillion to one and do so much more damage to the desert than any of these wild horses. Show me a natural water source in Nevada that is not fenced off and not destroyed by cattle! Show me a cattle rancher that doesn’t worry about wild horses competing with his cattle for water sources! I don’t see horses out there too often but I see cattle all the time. And coyote traps and carcasses that piss me off to no end.
Keep breeding and eating burgers and steaks… It is only a matter of time…
Yes, the mines too!
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Feb 15, 2010 - 12:00pm PT
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Well… back in this stupid house in this stupid city. :) But at least it’s the free lands where the pavement is smooth once you cross the state line…
Hey Ron, thanks for being more specific. No, I haven’t been to the Sheldon National Wildlife Refuge. I’ve driven through Mountain City and have been to Manhattan (looking for granites, of course…). Haven’t been to Montello, but there is an area to the SE of Jackpot that is really neat, near Contact (with lots of granite, of course…).
It sounds like you have spent A LOT of time out in Nevada – more than I have spent as a resident of this state for only the last decade. Cool. What does your business do? You work with the wild animals of Nevada? I never said that I am pro-wild horse, although I don’t view them in the way that you do. I am anti-massive cattle, based on what I have seen with my own eyes. On an emotional level, it does bother me to see horses treated in such ways. And as Carolyn has said, it seems like if the BLM is going to address the wild horse problem for environmental reasons, then why are the cattle not rounded up and “thinned”? Is this not just another example of human economics, where the unprofitable (animals) usually lose?
What do you think of the impact that cattle have on the desert, and riparian areas? Do you think that coyote trapping is a humane way of dealing with the problem of not enough space and food for too many animals in this desert, wild or grazer (thanks to human intervention…)? It is bad for horses to trample and destroy riparian areas but it is ok for cattle to do so, which brings in the bucks? Why? There is certainly no shortage of examples here.
What is the total cattle population in the state of Nevada right now? I did a super-quick check earlier but didn’t find anything online. Maybe I missed it? Facts and figures, anyone? Links? The NDOA website doesn’t seem to be too helpful, or current in some regards. http://agri.nv.gov/
Some info on coyotes:
http://agri.state.nv.us/chem/Brochures/Nevada_Coyote_Fact_Sheet.pdf
“DIRECT CONTROL
Where coyotes continue to be a problem after nonlethal methods have proven unsuccessful or when human health and safety is jeopardized, it is sometimes necessary to kill one or more animals. Coyotes can be shot where legal and appropriate or captured using a variety of restraining devices. Generally speaking, cage traps are not effective in capturing adult coyotes.
LAWS AND REGULATIONS
Coyotes are not threatened or endangered in Nevada. They are classified as “unprotected” mammals by the Nevada Department of Wildlife (NDOW) and as such can be taken at any time using approved methods.”
And more:
http://agri.state.nv.us/newsletters/Trapline/2008/January2008.pdf
Virginia Range horses:
http://agri.state.nv.us/PressReleases/2008/positionstateVRE4-2008.pdf
Granite Springs Valley appears to have adopted an agricultural farm of sorts (help me out, “aggies”) as of last year. The crop circles are growing… out of what was just recently a vast expanse of sage. This “addition” has turned a huge valley that appeared (aside from the MOOOOO factor…) to be pretty much in a natural state into the beginnings of what may resemble many of the other developed valleys in Nevada. That’s a real bummer to me. So much for an empty valley…
Yeah, where are those antelope? I used to see herds several years ago when I was riding, but it seems like I don’t see as many these days. There was a single antelope that I noticed about a week and a half ago, while cruising northern Churchill on my 500.
I’ve seen how the BLM handles and mismanages the off road races in Northern Nevada – I used to race my dirt bikes out in the desert but now just ride for fun, exploration, and exercise. The BLM receives income in permit fees and for every rider that enters a race, so why not allow the desert to be torn up? A year or so ago, I attended a meeting with my old race club as well as a monthly racing association meeting, in order to bring up the fact that races thrash parts of the desert and there are usually course markings and garbage left here and there, even months after things have supposedly been thoroughly cleaned up. Did they listen? Uhhh… Does the BLM go out to check on the courses, post-race, and hold race organizations responsible after the fact($)? I’m not seeing it and I am picking up garbage. It’s not easy to confront these people, especially when some of them are your true friends. And as far as my views on the BLM go, I can carry on… New fences???
Oh, and while we’re talking about desert racing (which I really “dig” in some ways), have any of you seen the remnants of a Vegas to Reno course? Those ruts are horrendous(!!!) and the races destroy dirt roads. Geologically speaking, it will be no time at all before many of those “raced” dirt roads in hilly or mountainous areas are impassible, even to the most tricked-out of 4x4s… It’s IRRESPONSIBLE land “management”… but what do you expect from the hominids? It’s all about the short term and the dollar signs.
As far as the Hwy 50 incident that you mentioned… well, I sympathize more with the invasive/feral/wild/whatever/destroyer horse than the hominids and their mini-mobile. Seriously. I don’t see why hominids can’t be on the road kill menu too (and more often). Yeah. :) Drive a bigger rig. Or better yet, drive a mini-mobile and stop breeding!
I can’t relate to the hunting thing, unless I’m starving or we’re talking granite. Two-legged prey seems much more interesting, especially if it can shoot back, but who knows, maybe devolution will bring society to that point sooner than we might imagine. Time will tell…
I LOVE NEVADA!!!!!!! And I care about this place a lot. There is nothing like having an ENTIRE valley to one’s self for days on end (but that is just selfish hominid talk…). Howl on, my coyote brothers! Can’t wait to get back out this week, now that the weather is nice… It’s a beautiful day!
:)
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426
climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Feb 15, 2010 - 01:16pm PT
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I saw scores of bighorns out in the east humboldts and rubies and "gazillions" of pronghorns out the hinterlands of eureka county. Just about everytime I rode I saw prongs. The bighorns (and mtn goats) are all also over lamoille canyon and it's pretty well traveled... I saw them every time up i hiked up yonder wells....sometimes they about killed me. Nothing like popping over a rise and seeing a big ram 20' away, sniffin' you.
Those animals migrate a lot...the mines (Bureau of Logging and Mining?) are phoqueing that "n8tive species" up more than any wild horse or shoshoni womens...you can see the glow of Carlin's Newmont operations from 50 or more miles away on a clear night....big business. Mebbe we do need "most dangerous game" a la minerals. I know one of the local deputies, Walt, shot stray dogs and more than likely had me in the x-hairs numerous times. He got fired, thankfully...
But I digress...
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