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WBraun
climber
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Nov 18, 2009 - 05:05pm PT
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John Moosie -- "if we are to become god"
This is the Mayavadi theory that after liberation the individual soul, separated by the covering of maya or illusion, will merge into the impersonal Brahman and lose its individual existence and is not supported.
The Mayavadi philosophers concept of becoming one with the Supreme Lord is another symptom of being lost in false ego.
One may falsely claim that he is the Supreme Lord, but actually he is not.
This is the last snare of mayas influence upon the living entity.
To think oneself equal with the Supreme Lord or to think oneself to be the Supreme Lord Himself is also due to false ego.
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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Nov 18, 2009 - 05:17pm PT
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago
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Nov 18, 2009 - 05:21pm PT
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Binks- "why do we need to kill plants and animals to survive"?
If we had all the answers we wouldn't need God...precisely what Eve was promised by Satan "you will be like God..." if she ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God initiated physical death(they had already died spiritually)when He instructed Adam and Eve to make garments from the hide of one of the very animals that he had given them the privilege to name. Must have been painful for Adam to have to kill the beast(he had no idea what death was until then). But it was even more painful for God to have lost the love and trust of His most cherished creation.
Children do go to be directly with God, FWIW.
EDIT:This was actually the first 'sacrifice' that God required for 'sin'. And as John Moosie explains above, hunger/food and its need, perhaps was also initiated at this time.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago
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Nov 18, 2009 - 05:32pm PT
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Pate!- "i am sur he got into the show that night".
Hahaha ^^^!
I am sure he added his three fingers worth to the show that night also!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 18, 2009 - 05:32pm PT
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"The bigger question which is why does life feed on life in general. Why do we need to kill plants and animals to survive? Why didn't God come up with a better than way than murder?"
As John pointed out, we don't have to kill to survive but in general, humans have to exist from stuff that contains life force, even if the nuts and fruits weren't independent living things.
We have to be careful about assumptions about God. Perhaps this isn't supposed to be a goody two shoes fun world where we like everything. (cause it obviously ain') This law ensures that we are faced with struggle and struggle often challenges and enhances our awareness. (that's one reason why we climb)
Perhaps it's also that we live in meat suits that are made of living material that needs living material for energy and reconstruction.
There may be exceptions to the rules. I know I guy who lived 60 days on mineral supplements and water, just doing breathing exercises. He was in fine shape but said he got bored of denying himself yummy food. I know I guy who had lived 13 years only consuming milk, no other food. Science would probably deny this is possible.
So folks who know of this stuff face being called nuts if we share it.
Peace
Karl
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago
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Nov 18, 2009 - 05:50pm PT
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Binks- "Was Christ,s so called walking on water a miracle"?
Christ was illustrating what we mere humans could accomplish through faith in Him! Peter at that point had a lack of it, you may recall, since he only made it about halfway.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 18, 2009 - 05:59pm PT
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Gack!!! Not a friggin' chance. Seen lot's of things I can't necessairly explain, but I'm completely ok with that. Gods? Individually and collectively they represent a primitive response to fear of the darkness. And just how many gods have humans had so far?
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago
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Nov 18, 2009 - 06:16pm PT
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Ghost-"(what about the chidren who are suffering)I ask that question..."
I suppose that God could have made it so children could not die, become ill, suffer(if anyone even thought of harming a child they would...whatever)until a certain age etc.
To begin with, mankind is is the one who initiates and perpetuates the order of such calamity in large. Through wars and corrupted/selfish intervention of much of the aid and relief that could help, for instance. Not to mention the physical and psychological pain being inflicted upon children and humanity on a daily basis in general.
He does consider us(all humanity)His children, and perhaps He desires for us to know Him better somehow. His love for the lost, is a grief that can only be slightly understood when it is compared to a mothers love when she is grieving for a lost child.
My father struggled with that, and I had no other explanation then, they go directly to be with Him.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago
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Nov 18, 2009 - 07:40pm PT
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John Moosie- "that if Jesus didn't believe in reincarnation, He would have spoke out against it".
He did when He said "it is for man once to die, then the judgement".
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 18, 2009 - 07:43pm PT
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John Moosie- "that if Jesus didn't believe in reincarnation, He would have spoke out against it".
He did when He said "it is for man once to die, then the judgment".
Yes .....
and after judgment one will receive a new body.
Socrates strikes again .....
because you forgot to close the back door.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Nov 18, 2009 - 07:56pm PT
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it is for man once to die, then the judgment".
That wasn't Jesus speaking. The author is unknown.
Jesus said,
For all the prophets and the law have prophesied until John. And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was to come. (Matt. 11:13-14)
Speaking of John the baptist being Elijah of the old testament.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago
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Nov 18, 2009 - 07:57pm PT
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Werner-"recieves a new body".
Exactly, an eternal one!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 18, 2009 - 08:01pm PT
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"I suppose that God..."
That obviously must be why he 'designed' a veritable catalog of congenital birth defects.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 18, 2009 - 08:02pm PT
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NO
That's not how it works. Not guaranteed.
I'm rascal, so I won't be going there ....
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 18, 2009 - 08:03pm PT
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YES
Do clicky, clicky...
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 18, 2009 - 08:04pm PT
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And healyji keeps blaming everything outside of himself.
Everything is Gods fault and you are faultless ....
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 18, 2009 - 08:06pm PT
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This material world is created by us to try to act independently.
Just see what happened at animal farm .....
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Michael D
Big Wall climber
Sorrento Mesa
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Nov 18, 2009 - 08:07pm PT
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My cousin is in Beatification to be a Saint....Father Alphonse Gallegos.
I used to joke about Fr. Gallegos being a "Saint in Training", but after reading about modern miracle events and the churches process of investigation, it's Reaaaalllly difficult to sustain a miracle due to technology and medical analysis.
I've had my hide saved several times by "Lord knows what". I Believe.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago
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Nov 18, 2009 - 08:09pm PT
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John Moosie!
Yes, but Elijah never died! He was caught up on 'chariots of fire'. The only other such person to not die was Enoch.
Jesus also describes John the Baptist as being so unique that there was no one like him up untel then.
EDIT:The spirit of Elijah is wht Jesus was talking about.
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Tobia
Social climber
GA
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Nov 18, 2009 - 08:11pm PT
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Have I seen a miracle? Yes I have. Would some of you believe me if I told you about it? Doubtful. I wouldn't have up until the time I experienced it.
The question has been repeated several times in this thread about where are all the believers when a response is needed to answer the question about where God is when all of the children are dying.
As a believer I will take a stab at it; that is the part of this thread that is easy to respond to. It is impossible to answer a question posed for God himself. I don't know the answer and there is no one that posts on this website that can.
I have read several threads about Christianity, ju-ju, etc. and was strongly compelled to respond but couldn't find the words. As a person that lived the majority of life (53 years) as a agnostic or atheist (depending on age) I knew nothing I could hammer into these keys would amount too much.
Christianity is a faith based concept. You either accept it or you don't. There isn't a thing I can write or say that will change your belief; at least as long as you have a closed heart. It takes an open heart.
The concept of free will is 99.9% of the puzzle. God doesn't mess with free will. Don't ask the "why questions"! There is a never ending stream of "why" questions; on any given topic. How many can be answered? None. Is this real? Am I real?
The believers that respond to these threads do so because that is part of their faith, to try to spread the word. They care about you to take a chance at it, despite the ridicule, doubt, etc. thrown at them.
You can't push someone to believe; however plenty of people lose their faith because of doubt created in and out of their minds. There is so much in life that makes doubt come easy.
The truth is, whether you have faith or not, that you certainly should be wise enough not to adamantly deny something with such fervor. Not a good idea; and I am not talking about lightning bolts, I am talking about human logic as in "never say never".
The miracle I spoke of earlier kept me alive. I am not talking about something that can be explained away with arguments such as coincidence, science or logic. I asked for something other than a savior but that is what I met up with.
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