Any Christian Pentacostals in the ST crowd?

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paul roehl

Boulder climber

california

Jan 28, 2009 - 12:42am PT

No, the end of the world is just your enlightend illusion, enjoy!!!

paul roehl

Boulder climber

california

Jan 28, 2009 - 12:45am PT

Oh. I forgot, hahahahaha!

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Jan 28, 2009 - 03:28am PT

Asioux writes

"...Get a bible. Check out this website. The Rapture, Mark of the beast. It talks about when Jesus Christ returns and what happens with the Anti Christ and 666......"

When you are deciding whom to persecute as the anti-christ, it might be helpful to know that the earliest known manuscripts of Revelations have the mark of the beast as "616."

Most scholars believe both 616 and 666, and all of the book of Revelation, was referring to the Roman Emperors of the time. There is not doubt from Christian scripture that Jesus and the Apostles were expecting their kingdom within a generation.

There are over 5000 known manuscripts of the Bible (hand written) from which all translations are based on. After extensive study, it has been determine that no two are alike. They all have little or big differences.

Sadly, even the story of Jesus keeping the adulterer from being Stoned was not added until the year 1200 or so.

So it's best not to turn any book into an idolatry. It wasn't even available to Christians until pretty recently (after the printing press and after the Catholic church stopped fighting to prevent it from being translated)

I think this idea of an infallible bible is a protestant response to "an infallible Pope" and the Muslim claim of a perfect book copied from heaven.

Peace

Karl

Gene

climber

Jan 28, 2009 - 11:23am PT

Karl,

I think "papal infallibility" is a recent addition to RCC dogma, like within the last 150 years or so.

gm

eeyonkee

Trad climber

Golden, CO

Jan 28, 2009 - 11:35am PT

Thats enough to put the fear of God in me and accept Christ as my savior and have faith in the unseen.

Scare tactics. Been working for thousand of years...

paul roehl

Boulder climber

california

Jan 28, 2009 - 12:10pm PT

I think the problem with this thread has been the confusion of really diverse views of Christianity and faith. There are orthodox Christians (those that follow the Nicaean creed and insist on belif in the deity of Christ, trinity, virgin birth and so on), those who believe in a more ambiguous Christianity in which Christ is just a gifted prophet, those that believe in a personal God that intervenes in our lives and those that believe in an eastern deity that "no name can soil" and is removed from participation in human interaction.

Many of these views are completely intolerent of one another. If Karl had espoused his ideas about religion in Catholic Italy or Protestant Germany prior to the enlightenment he might have been burned at the stake. The same is true for WBrauns notion of eastern spirituality. It was the rise of secularism in the eilghteenth century that began to put an end to the intolerence of religions one for the other.

The revolutions in both America and France would have caused great consternation to any Orthodox believer, because Christian dogma, based on St. Paul's letter to the Romans, Chap. 13, prohibits revolution against the divine right of kings. Jefferson and the founding fathers were influenced primarily by new philosopies based on systems from classical antiquity. When Louis was beheaded in France it was tantamount to killing god. Churches were torn down or turned into temples of nature. In America the neoclassical style of art and architecture, borrowed from France, was based on the rhetoric of reason.

WBraun

climber

Jan 28, 2009 - 12:38pm PT

"I think" is the first problem.

That means you don't know and speculating again ......

Minerals

Social climber

The Deli

Jan 28, 2009 - 12:42pm PT

Religion is the downfall of humanity and should be wiped off the face of the planet in its entirety!!!

Satan F*#king Loves You!

666

paul roehl

Boulder climber

california

Jan 28, 2009 - 01:49pm PT

WBraun, the problem is not thinking. You should try it, thinking that is.

paul roehl

Boulder climber

california

Jan 28, 2009 - 05:15pm PT

Huh?
Cogito ergo sum!

Gene

climber

Jan 28, 2009 - 05:34pm PT

I don’t see any resolution to this thread. Beliefs our a matter of individual choice. It’s apparent that those who have recently posted the most hold very tightly to their beliefs/opinions/theories/whatever. That’s cool.

Is it time to agree that many of us disagree, put this thread down, and all go off in peace?

Thanks to all who have participated.
gm

micronut

Trad climber

fresno, ca

Jan 28, 2009 - 06:52pm PT

Oh man......
I step away for a few days and now we got pentagrams and people wanting to close the door on this thread. We gotta keep it going until at least one of the Atheists sees the light and converts to Christianity! Or at least until Paul or Werner convert eachother. Otherwise we gotta sit around here on the Taco and discuss the pros and cons of the "sliding x" or the 3:1 pulley.

I went out and bought one of the Darwin books so I can stay in the discussion, but haven't had time to crack it open.

Cause I was out doin' this!

WBraun

climber

Jan 28, 2009 - 08:37pm PT

Dr Failed

You're still a whiny little bitch.

No answers for you.

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Jan 28, 2009 - 10:24pm PT

Hi Skip

It's important to remember that the Catholilc church, for many hundreds of years, was THE Christian church. None other was permitted to exist.

Certainly there was plenty of virtue and vice in that.

Catholics might have been persecuted in some places but did more of their share of persecuting as well. That human beings for you. No point in apologizing for it nor criticizing Catholics for it.

The idea of an "infallible" pope went far back before it was declared dogma. Jesus passed "The keys to Heaven" to Peter, who is regarded as the first pope. Jesus told Peter that Peter's judgment would be honored by heaven (the passage could be interpreted in many was but has been used for Papal authority)

So naturally, when the reformation came around, and they didn't have a human figure speaking on behalf of God for authority, they invested that authority in the book.

No need to consider it an attack. I have equal doubts about the letters on a page or the words of any man accurately and unfailingly speaking for God. Too easy and, in hindsight, often incorrect.

So what? I'm not trying to judge God by our human foibles and it's only challenges anybody's church to the extent that they want to claim a perfection with which to rule us with.

Peace

Karl

Dick_Lugar

Trad climber

Indiana (the other Mideast)

Jan 28, 2009 - 10:24pm PT

I like to think we return to the place before we were born...

Where were we before we were born?

I have no recollection of it. No memory of pleasure or pain, just nothingness. Sorta scary, but at the same time...not so scary?

Lynne Leichtfuss

Social climber

valley center, ca

Jan 29, 2009 - 12:53am PT

Jess wondering, why all the exterior debate ?

For me the Bottom line is the bible and the words that god gave to us. The New Testament is succinct. Specially what jesus says.

We could talk about what jesus says in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and go from there. :D

I think jesus is coming again soon like he says he would.

Lynne Leichtfuss

Social climber

valley center, ca

Jan 29, 2009 - 10:30pm PT

Hey Dr. F, I like that you tell it like you think and feel. :D
In response....Lynne knows God is real. Lynne does not know All about God cause he is after all...God.

I firmly believe Jesus is coming again and probably sooner rather than later. Every human being will know when he returns. You won't be able to miss it. He is coming without announcement, no one knows the day or time. But, when he comes It is going to be an incredible event. He is coming in the clouds and all creation will see him at the same time.

Revelation is a pretty cool book. Last one in the Bible. Here's some stuff it says.

Chapter 22:12 Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.

3:20 Behold I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him and he with me.

1:5 Look, he is coming in the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him: and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen

Matthew 24 and 25 are great....Like you said Dr. F ...."false christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive......"

"They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory"

"Therefore, keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch....."

Finally, God does answer every dialogue you have with Him. Like with your spouse or significant other....you gotta have a relationship with them and yo gotta listen.

It hasn't been easy or pretty....but he has always helped me. I am currently in the biggest crisis I have ever experienced and it is not just because my husband died. Lots of Huge challenges. Pretty much stretched beyond measure. But, the God of Creation and Grace will help me daily deal with it.

Cheers, Love and Peace, Lynne

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Jan 30, 2009 - 01:42am PT

An atheist was walking through the woods.

'What majestic trees!' 'What powerful rivers!' 'What beautiful animals!' He said to himself. As he was walking alongside the river, he heard a rustling in the bushes behind him. He turned to look.

He saw a 7-foot grizzly bear charging towards him. He ran as fast as he could up the path. He looked over his shoulder and saw that the bear was closing in on him. He looked over his shoulder again, and the bear was even closer. He tripped and fell on the ground. He rolled over to pick himself up but saw that the bear was right on top of him, reaching for him with his left paw and raising his right paw to strike him.

At that instant the Atheist cried out, 'Oh my God!' Time Stopped. The bear froze. The forest was silent. As a bright light shone upon the man, a voice came out of the sky.

'You deny my existence for all these years, teach others I don't exist, and even credit creation to cosmic accident. Do you expect me to help you out of this predicament? Am I to count you as a believer?'

The atheist looked directly into the light and said,

'It would be hypocritical of me to suddenly ask you to treat me as a Christian now, but perhaps you could make the BEAR a Christian?'

'Very Well,' said the voice.

The light went out.

The sounds of the forest resumed.

And the bear dropped his right paw, brought both paws together, bowed his head & spoke:

'Lord bless this food, which I am about to receive from thy bounty through Christ our Lord, Amen.'