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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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HFCS: Obviously, MikeL didn't spend his so-called formative years in a Church or Mosque every week.
Catholic boarding school in the middle of nowhere in Oklahoma run by Benedict priests and monks at a seminary. Then finished up high school at a very large public school. Then a liberal arts education at a good college. Then to UIUC for graduate degrees. In the middle, I spent time on the streets, and later worked my way into sales and management in more legitimate enterprises. (So what?)
Your understanding of many things tends to be assumptive and superficial.
L: I was a child at the time, thus the childish thinking.
I’m glad you noted that. That was the point of my comment.
And would you say that things haven’t changed in your understanding since then?
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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"Catholic boarding school in the middle of nowhere in Oklahoma..."
At last, MikeL scores!
I am happy to apologize for the sloppy posting. I was just one action potential away from adding the qualifier “fundamentalist” to the sentence, one action potential away from removing “obviously,” and one action potential away from adding, “Correct me if I’m wrong”. Sorry, I was rushed in the moment. So apologies for the loose, sloppy writing.
That said…
So having attended “Catholic boarding school...” then it’s all the MORE surprising, at least to me, that you don’t readily see the useful and very relevant distinction (apparently) between literal fundamentalism in countless churches and more allegorical forms in others; further that you don’t (apparently) see and fully appreciate the former as still very much alive and well in our culture. Not so alive and well as in the 20th century, thank goodness, but still, alive and well enough to affect this country’s law and politics not only in bible belt backwater locales but even in today’s Supreme Court goings-on.
Lastly...
"Your understanding of many things tends to be assumptive and superficial."
Though a riposte like this is pretty standard fare from you (as evidenced by hundreds of your posts now on the Mind thread), I don't mind pointing out here that I would, I could, characterize this AS WELL as pretty loose, sloppy.
But I'm happy to assume (rather superficially?) it just may have been rushed.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Without question “soul” exists in the minds of many, although in different iterations. I prefer to keep the attic clean and have swept out the seeds planted in my childhood before they could sprout.
Sister Theresa, who was rather cute, will/would be very disappointed...she would be 100 or more now if still a corporeal presence.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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HFCS,
You and my wife would get along. For her, my expressions could be much simpler. At times, in order to keep the peace, I wish I could just go along with what I think are black-and-white distinctions and drive to implementable action plans. I resist putting anything into a box.
I’m not at all sure what soul is or what it could be. Some of my recent reading says that soul is everything in life that’s everyday, salty, dark, moody, and personal—almost the exact opposite of how many spiritualists envision a higher plane of existence. I’m seeing and experiencing both these days. Both, together, make-up the human condition. If someone can be said to be soulful, I have an intuitive notion of what that could mean.
I can imagine that the idea of living in a Catholic boarding school could be hell to some. It wasn’t, (but I missed girls!) Any organizational experience imparts discipline, and that’s good for me. One learns religion like one learns math: principles, values, practices, norms of behavior, language and terms, community experiences all get imparted institutionally and socially. Yet, no one had to use religion in their daily lives any more than anyone has to use math in their daily lives. It’s just another part of your education. Perhaps you’ll say I’m naive, but at the end of the day, what I do, believe, and associate with all fall to me. Isn’t it the same for you, if you’re aware of yourself? Your unflagging belief in the ideal of science suggests to me that you’ve made your own decisions.
Additionally, there was beauty, serenity, confidence, intelligence, and a deep sense of mystery and wonder that I experienced at that Catholic school because it was Catholic, run by men for the purpose of turning “problem boys” into men. (Sounds lascivious, doesn’t it?) There is a mission in it.
As for superficiality and assumptions, it’s something said that does not help conversation. My regrets.
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Karkoekstan, Former USSR
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Body is the vehicle and soul is the driver
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Hush...or you’ll never get car insurance.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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I may have mentioned this earlier, but my old friend and fellow boulderer, Rich Borgman, a microbiologist at one time, became a very religious person, working as a minister in the prison systems of Africa. He later converted to Catholicism and is now a deacon in the Church (to the best of my knowledge), working with immigrants in Georgia.
He once explained his concept of soul as a part of his "being" (a philosophical word of which I am skeptical): "It's part of me that is not conscious, but will survive death in some form I cannot imagine."
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Don Paul
Social climber
Denver CO
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Wishful thinking considering there is no evidence that anyone's consciousness, awareness, or whatever you want to call it, survived death, other than what's written in religious texts. Although I will concede that self-awareness is not too well understood in any field of science.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Jogill: That definition is what I was raised on and I think to a large degree one held by the secular masses in Christian America.
The Christian's shot themselves in the foot when they redfined "soul" as something you have rather than who you are as in other Eastern religion. I think it is likely that Jesus and the earliest Christians, did not see it that way.
One reason I never bought Christianity is that I did not care about something I have but can't see, feel or experience.
Luckily I got that word redfined and got a hand on what it is all about with the definition of soul as the "I" or consious self. That is a much more workable definition in a practical way.
Don Paul: Look outside of universities. It's not in the main stream.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Spider,
“Bought” is a very modern (economic) way of expressing one's beliefs and resulting commitments. ("Investment" is another.) It doesn’t seem that faith is something that someone can buy, barter, or exchange for something else of value. If you were to replace the word bought with believe, reinsert it into the sentence, then you might want to consider what you wrote.
I’d say that belief is exactly what it takes to care about anything that you cannot see, feel, or experience.
Be well.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Jul 10, 2018 - 10:37am PT
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Mike,
I specificly use my economic terms to better express what I mean.
Truth, facts, data, are difficult to find in the swamp that is this civilization on nearly all subjects. It seems that many people take comfort in what we have come to. I am looking way ahead. History shows us we don't know zhit.
So people are accepting "facts" whether from the Bible, or university professors, or their favorite authors.
When I say "bought" I meant that one has examined (shopped) the information, and is making that leap to accepting it.
It is always good to like something you buy. But have the integrity to change your mind if it's not working out. Easier to do with stuff than with religion or philosophy.
edit: And I see your viewpoint. The word is cold and hard and a bit dis respectful to Christians. And I do respect Christians, especially those who adhere closely to the New Testament.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Aug 27, 2018 - 08:25pm PT
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Interesting how these threads go dormant until some hapless soul misreads the title and goes looking for transcendent reporting on South Korea.
Did soul give birth to the blues or vice versa?
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Aug 28, 2018 - 07:07am PT
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zBrown: Did soul give birth to the blues or vice versa?
Where life is suffering, there you find soul. The blues is an expression of soul. Blood, sweat, tears feeds soul. We all have soul. Its expression is beautiful.
Some have said that soul can give rise to character. Character is not necessarily “good.” It can be “bad,” depending upon social mores. Character is like a tried and proven modus operandi for an individual. If consistent, character becomes recognized as “your way” of being in the world. If inconsistent, one could say that another doesn’t have much character.
One might say that soul is of this world, and spirit is of another. But that’s a dualism. Both are two sides of the same coin.
Cheers, z.
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 28, 2018 - 07:30am PT
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The living entity itself (as the spiritual soul) resides within the heart and when the living entity vibrates sound in the form called blues it is heard as "Soul".
One who hears this sound vibration feels it within their own heart also.
Soul always comes from the heart, always, as that is the source, not the mind or the brain as the so-called scientists claim.
Otherwise, it's just mechanical noise and painful to one's ears ......
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Aug 28, 2018 - 08:10am PT
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Enough already with all this nonsense.
Without Motown, none of you would have any soul at all.
The best thing you can do in life is get over yourself.
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Trump
climber
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Aug 28, 2018 - 11:46am PT
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Why do you poor foolish childish people even try? I know I’m right, and the fact that you think that you’re right, it’s just kind of embarrassing. For you. Aren’t you embarrassed by how wrong you are?
If not, that’s cool - I’ll be embarrassed for you. We’re each ones of us, after all. Just think of me as Jesus. Or Trump. You do your thinking your way.
Best people!
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Aug 28, 2018 - 12:52pm PT
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And to think, John Bachar or Herr Braun (I can't recall which) actually turned down a gig playing with these folks.
Go finger!
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Aug 31, 2018 - 09:31am PT
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Soul always comes from the heart, always, as that is the source,
This may be good for you but I am not tied down to the meat. I am a free soul, man.
You can stick to the heart or stuck inside a brain, but it's all optional.
Bodies are a blast to play with but never get stuck inside them. Wear them like suit or drive them hard like a car.
To crudely quote the Montana Mystic - Think of the body to the soul like sliver (body) stuck in a thumb (soul).
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Further Soul Searching
Look at it this way; the human soul (or probably any soul animating a material body of any kind) is basically an omnipotent god able to create anything including rules of physics, etc.
It's a devolving god theory. Being omnipotent is no-game. Plus people just hate omnipotent people and so knock them into a state of self-put-down. Being omnipotent, then considering one is not, has flaws, can't figure out life, etc., one gets exactly what one considers.
People who are alergic to responsibility hate this one: Your considerations and conscious thoughts are what causes your reality.
That is a big one. And if you hold it backwards and give the handle to someone else your life will plunge into misery. (personal experience)
It's a very simple premise, that seems to be completely true. Sorting it all out, not so easy. Even when you find the path it's long and hard and very easy to fall off of. But it can be done by anyone with the self discipline.
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Trump
climber
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So say I, as proven to me by my own personal thinking about my own personal experiences.
Works for me. Good enough for omnipotent human believers like us. If we created ourselves, we can do anything!
People who are allergic to responsibility have flawed souls. Kind of like people who are allergic to pollen have flawed meat. My soul is just healthier than other souls that way.
Pay no attention to what created this meat stuff. That has no relationship to my own omnipotent self. So say I.
These monkey brains will be the death of us all. Ah well, they had a good run.
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