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miker12
Boulder climber
Us
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 16, 2018 - 11:01am PT
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It's not not only about religion, many philosophers and scientist are saying that our soul exists, do you believe them or not?
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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May 16, 2018 - 11:40am PT
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You need to clarify what you mean by "soul".
It depends what on what the definition of is is.
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silverplume
Trad climber
Boulder
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May 16, 2018 - 11:42am PT
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For me, 'soul' (or the self, the Atman, etc.) is simply the seat of consciousness- that which is aware of being aware. Without it, there is nothing. So in that sense, yes, I believe soul exists.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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May 16, 2018 - 11:47am PT
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Yes.
Take a look at a dead body. Doesn't have one. Live body does.
Sometimes unconsious or sleeping body, soul is elsewhere.
Fact: You are a soul. Not a mind or a meat puppet. Can't be killed. Picking up bodies lifetime after lifetime. Immortal.
Go ahead and try to prove that this is not a fact.
Here is how to tell for yourself:
In your mind, picture a dog. Get a good picture and really look at the detail.
Now, who is looking at the picture?
That is you.
Books and classes available. Contact me somehow for details if actually interested. Not my regular gig, but I can hook you up. Has worked fantastic for me and many others. Might help you climb better too.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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May 16, 2018 - 12:27pm PT
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No, sadly Sol passed a couple of years ago. He was the best.
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WBraun
climber
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May 16, 2018 - 01:06pm PT
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You yourself are the individual soul.
Not your material body though .......
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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May 16, 2018 - 01:10pm PT
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The problem I have with the "soul" as being this immutable thing that traverses time and space is the very real effects of the physical world upon it.
You can turn any 'good' soul into a killing monster with a little alteration of neurochemicals or other malignancies like tumors. It seems too easy to alter both perception and behavior with much more earthly materials.
So then do we separate soul from good and/or evil, from personality and actions/behavior?
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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May 16, 2018 - 01:30pm PT
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http://www.slashfilm.com/the-terror-the-c-the-c-the-open-c-review/
You likely could’ve guessed that cannibalism was coming sooner or later – it’s the sort of thing that always seems to crop up in stories of explorers stranded far from home with little or nothing to eat. The way The Terror handles all of this is haunting to the extreme while not being explicit.
...Food for thought, fear!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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May 16, 2018 - 02:43pm PT
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The problem I have with the "soul" as being this immutable thing that traverses time and space is the very real effects of the physical world upon it.
I agree! That "soul" is still very much a product of empirical (materialistic, worldly) reality.
Kant's notion, the one I think makes the most sense, is that the "soul" is the transcendental, individual "I think" that is presupposed by all my thoughts and perceptions.
This is not the "I" that I see when I look inwards and "recognize myself." That "self" is very much affected by the empirical world, because it is an empirical entity. When I look inwards and perceive that entity, that is just another empirical perception and, hence, already composed (synthesized) by the "I think." Thus, the Kantian notion of soul is that of the "synthesizer" that is unique to each of us, that we can never become empirically aware of, and that is necessarily presupposed by all of what we normally call consciousness.
By "transcendental," Kant (roughly) means "not in space and time."
So, in a very bare nutshell, the "I think" is what "assembles awareness and thoughts" in and about space and time for each of us. Thus, it cannot itself be captured in any thought or awareness; it is always "out of reach" but necessarily presupposed (epistemologically necessary) by consciousness (thought of as a stream of awareness) itself.
This is nothing like the "soul" as it is believed by most religions, because the religious "soul" is an empirical entity (self-consciousness, perhaps). Kant's "I think" underlies all empiricism, including empirical awareness of the "self." Indeed, the empirical self and all of its empirical contents can only emerge (be synthesized) because of the actions of the transcendental self, the "I think."
I can't even begin to provide the vast, dense, and systematic argumentation for this that Kant provides in the Critique of Pure Reason (howls of WoT, WoT!). But I personally find his arguments compelling.
Again, nothing about this "I think" presupposes or even neatly maps onto any religious dogma. Kant is talking about the necessary preconditions for ALL awareness, including any awareness of "cosmic consciousness" or universal mind or God or anything else that one might become aware of during meditation or prayer (or climbing, lol).
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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May 16, 2018 - 02:46pm PT
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Asking White People about "soul" is the first problem.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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May 16, 2018 - 03:42pm PT
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many ...scientist are saying that our soul exists...
[Dubious assertion]. [Citation needed].
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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May 16, 2018 - 04:01pm PT
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Vedanta philosophy teaches that the soul is uncaused, endless and beginningless, and its true nature is beyond all forms of human expression. Surrounding the soul is a casual matrix of 35 ideas, then an energy, or "astral" body, and then finally the gross physical form. At death the soul, the astral body, and the causal matrix all separate from the physical form.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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May 16, 2018 - 04:01pm PT
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Currently unavailable! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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May 16, 2018 - 04:26pm PT
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Nice, madbolter! That seems like a pretty concise statement of your position to me. I like that in positions. I need to ponder it.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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May 16, 2018 - 04:43pm PT
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Asking White People about "soul" is the first problem.
I identify as pink.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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May 16, 2018 - 05:02pm PT
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I bought some sh#t that will melt your face off bro!
It's called Day-Kart. You can get it on the street for cheap.
I got my first hit of Day-Kart in College.
Mind blown!
I think about a horse, therefore I am a thinking thing (thinking about a horse).
But don't put Descartes before the horse.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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May 16, 2018 - 06:04pm PT
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The little engine that philosophized: "I think I am, I think I am."
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