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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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I want to see this shaky video shot in low light. Like this mysterious video caught everything.
Was there a camera being used by a bro to put on YouTube or a touron?
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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This will still be interesting for a while.
Chongo incident = climbers lied in court for their own
Ammon incident = climbers claim Rangers lie too
The rift continues. 50 years of Yosemite tradition is alive and well.
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pc
climber
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Mtucker, What is your problem?
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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He's a Tool, that's his problem. . .
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mt.phucker is a known quantity.
The pirate is apparently channelling Tobin and leading with a rope tied around his neck.
Very impressive.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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the law may also have been broken by whoever used a taser. tasering is a violent act. such acts are inherently criminal unless they are done with good cause.
an internal investigation is not the same as a criminal investigation. i suggest mr. mcneely investigate the laws and policies which pertain and consider bringing criminal charges if he believes criminal activity took place.
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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I have been waiting for that one. You guys are slow on the draw. I truly expect so much more.
Nope, I am just a jilted lover.
He stole my girl and she left with no word. She still has never confessed.
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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He can only do the civil route. And it is only "preponderance of the evidence" as burden of proof. Like more than %50.
The government has to do the criminal part. But they will need him as a witness.
Burden of proof for the fed is "beyond a reasonable doubt"
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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not true, tucker. if you believe a crime has been committed, you can lodge a criminal complaint and it must be followed up on. it isn't something to be taken lightly, but it's the right of every citizen. law enforcement people are not immune to the laws they are entrusted to uphold.
if you think the government itself is involved in a crime, there are certain avenues open, such as the standing grand jury. things get tricky with overlapping jurisdictions, but the primary responsibility for law enforcement lies with every county sheriff. in some counties in the u.s., sheriffs have been known to tell meddling feds, such as ATF officers, to get out.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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I'm reminded of what Oscar Wilde said of fox hunting: The pursuit of the inedible by the unspeakable.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Speaking with the media or publicly about this incident is not in Ammons' best interest. The best thing for him to do, and his friends, is SHUT UP.
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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You can hardly open a news paper around the country without a "Bad Cop" story in it.
Tony Tony,
The Sheriff and his department are paid for by tax dollars. They are part of the government. They are included in the "Tool" academy. They can be and are just as bad as any other.
Cops at any level are not above the law but there are lots of laws and protections on their side. Like I said, SUCCESSFUL law suits against them are rare.
Sure, regular people can make a complaint with a Grand Jury. But an indictment gets kicked over to the courts and the local government authorities. Part of the local cops job is to work with and for the "County Attorney’s Office" for evidence collection and other duties.
Grand juries are not the easiest to get to or work with. Few states have grand juries at the county level.
As the saying goes "Grand Juries with indict a ham sandwich"
What happens to those sandwiches? DAs and such can do what ever.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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don't forget that besides the criminal part, Ammon can certainly sue in a civil suit, against the stupid taser smuck only.
thats why if you pop someone robbing your house, their family can still sue you, even if he broke the law.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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for what?
copping a feel on a nude sun bather?
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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the law isn't protecting them, tucker. only custom. custom isn't easy to change and it's actually more powerful than the law. custom begins with you and me.
you're talking like a lawyer. are you one? lawyers are always talking about probabilities and they don't generally encourage people to stand for their rights against apparently tough odds. they are the voice of the status quo.
this all changes, of course, when there's a great deal of money involved. i suspect ammon has spent most of his on his BASE equipment, now confiscated. if he has resources, however, very clever lawyers could suddenly develop amazing fits of imagination.
those of us who must find our way outside of this lopsided process must begin by educating ourselves about our own rights. often we have to stand for them largely on our own. i won a pretty good case for myself in court once doing just that--if i had listened to my lawyer i'd have probably spent the rest of my life as a puppydog on a leash. we have a good system, a very good system. a bad cop will be afraid of it if it's brought to play against him.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Revenge is supposedly best eaten cold.
As a lawyer, I strongly advise Ammon to talk about what happened and the aftermath only with a) his lawyer, and b) under oath in court.Italic Text It may be galling not to get your side of the story out, and not to talk about it with friends, but if there's any defence at all, it's in your best interests. One of the first steps of any competent defence lawyer is to tell the client to STFU.
It is very risky to say things like: "I already know the rangers are planning on lying about what happened". Whether or not they did, proving it to a judge's satisfaction in a court isn't easy. Such statements, if made in court, are likely privileged - but not outside court. Add a name to such a statement, and you may find yourself on the receiving end of a civil action for defamation. An action where your testimony can probably be compelled.
It's kind of Ammon's friends to come to his support, but again, anything that is said here can and will be used against him, at least in sentencing. Let's say he is convicted, and they're discussing the sentence. The police or the prosecutor might print out and present this thread, for the judge to understand the context of what happened, and to "prove" that base jumpers are an out-of-control menace to all right-thinking citizens, and the park.
This bears repeating.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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you guys may as well do the strawberry shortcake,
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Oh good lord...
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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She didn't even say 3...2...1...C YA!
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