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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jan said: "couchmaster-
I want to hear how you acquired a yeti bone from Nepal? Gift or purchase? Kathmandu or in the mountains?"
We were wandering around in Nepal, I want to say Rongbuk valley but maybe it was the Machermo Valley: the memory is bad these days, and Natong Sherpa pointed right to a spot and said, that is where XXXXXX was attacked by a Yeti (where XXXXXX is some girls name I do not recall). Right THERE! And he pointed. Then he recounted the story of the attack on the girl and the Zupchucks that had also been killed right there (like a Yak but less hair, most likely misspelled there). He assured us that the story was true, but when asked he replied that other than the girl, no one had seen the Yeti as it was night.
Well, we had not walked far, perhaps the equivalent of a full city block and my little brother looked on the ground and right there pointing said "Oh look, a Yeti Bone". And he picked it up and carried it with him. Where ever we went, if the Sherpas spoke english he recounted that story to them and asked if they wanted to see his Yeti Bone. Most of them just would laugh and were not interested in seeing his Yeti Bone. This was my younger brother, the one who was with me many years before when my older brother and I discovered a new species (when I was a 5th grade graduate - the Red Frog). We didn't keep the red frog as I detailed, but he kept the Yeti Bone.
He still has it. I still have the rug I bought up there as well on a rest day coming down.
It was a Gilligans Island style purchase......a 3 hour cruise....:-) This is what ya do when there's no TV in Nepal.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Hmmm, maybe the Rongbuk valley is the other side in Tibet....That was later, here's a memory from there where I bought some draft horse bells and the kids were shaking them so I'd make horse noises (which is one of my few actual skills).
This is what you do where theres no TV in Tibet I suppose.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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"Want to see my Yeti bone?"
How many times did that elicit a slap in the face?
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sharperblue
Mountain climber
oakland, california
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not sure if this was already posted in this thread; Advice for Yeti hunters from the Us Embassy in Kathmandu:
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squishy
Mountain climber
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The shaved bear
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bmacd
Trad climber
100% Canadian
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Government restrictions are tight everywhere in this field Sharperblue - tough sledding for sure
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shady
Trad climber
hasbeen
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Mar 15, 2013 - 02:04am PT
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Where's squacho?You will need to enlarge this photo. Follow the line between the sagebrush and the trees to the right.
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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another Kennewick Man tangent update...
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2013/08/03/2503976/debate-over-kennewick-man-not.html
Wind sweeps across this lonely stretch of sagebrush, carrying songs and prayers of 10 tribes gathered here, laying ancestral remains to rest.
From both sides of the mountains, they helped bless the bones of 57 individuals wrapped in white cotton muslin tied with cotton string, put away with cedar boughs and tule mats within a hand-dug grave.
Afterward, elder Avery Cleveland of the Confederated Tribes of the Colville Indian Reservation knelt to burn tobacco on the covered grave, sending its smoke and a horse song on the rising wind.
The love and care paid to these remains, blessed and returned to earth, is what tribal leaders say they want to give Kennewick Man. But nearly two decades after one of the oldest and most intact ancient skeletons ever found in North America was accidentally discovered, Kennewick Man, more than 9,500 years old, is still in limbo.
That could be about to change.
Scientists in Copenhagen right now are doing tests using new methods that could for the first time extract some of the skeleton's DNA, perhaps answering the question of the ancient man's ancestry.
Tribes that want the skeleton reburied say they are going to try again within a year to change federal law to repatriate ancient remains, including Kennewick Man's.
And a book that details the findings from years of study of the skeleton should be out, after years of waiting.
The research has urgent relevance. The case for reburial that the tribes lost in court still could be reopened and, depending on findings that emerge, could yet have a very different outcome, including repatriation of the bones to the tribes, said Gail Celmer, regional archaeologist for the Army Corps of Engineers Northwest Division, in Portland.
Scientists oppose reburial, saying there is still so much more to be learned about Kennewick Man, from just where a stone point in his hip came from, to his ancient diet.
At the heart of the matter is whether the remains can be determined to be of Native American origin, as the tribes insist. If so, federal law requires that the bones be returned for reburial by tribes that claim them.
A federal appeals panel in 2004 found the bones too old, and the context of their find too void of archaeological clues, to assign membership genetically or culturally to any modern tribe.
"If there is information ... that indicates he may be Native American, it might cause us to reopen the analysis," the panel wrote.
Tribes fight for reburial
Five Northwest tribes _ Yakama, Colville, Nez Perce, Wanapum and Umatilla _ fought in court for reburial under the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act (NAGPRA).
"We know he will come home to us someday. We never give up," said Rex Buck, spiritual leader of the Wanapum tribe.
The tribes have continued to press their case with the Corps, which controls access to the skeleton because it was found on Corps property. Two boys wading the shallows of the Columbia River in 1996 stumbled upon the skeleton, emerging from the banks near Kennewick, and called the police.
Tribes have fought for repatriation from just about every angle. "We have looked at cemetery laws. We have looked at it as an archaeological collection," Celmer said. "We have talked about underground curation.
"I am not sure we could guarantee that we could keep it stable or protected, but it is a novel idea."
It was Buck who last fall invited Doug Owsley, a physical anthropologist at the Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of Natural History who led the fight in court to study the skeleton, to the Northwest. He did it, Buck said, to hear what Owsley had to say about his research on Kennewick Man so far, and to ask Owsley for his help in getting Kennewick Man back.
Owsley made no such commitment that day. But he did make headlines when he declared Kennewick Man not only isn't an Indian, but that he's not from the mid-Columbia at all.
Residue in Kennewick man's bones showed he ate a lot of food from the marine environment: marine mammals, such as seals, especially, Owsley said in a private gathering with tribal members at Central Washington University.
"They are not what you would expect for someone from the Columbia Valley," he said of isotopes detected in the remains. "You would have to eat salmon 24 hours a day and you would not reach these values.
"This is a man from the coast. Not a man from here. I think he is a coastal man."
Buck told Owsley at the time that while he appreciated the presentation, it lacked a larger picture of how tribal members actually live, then and today.
Lamprey eel could have provided the same types of nutrients, Buck noted. "I hope you would think about some of those things too, and add that to your equation."
It was a gentle reminder of a very different mid-Columbia, teeming with animal life even as recently as some 200 years ago, let alone during the time of Kennewick Man.
A much different Mid-Columbia
When Lewis and Clark explored portions of the Columbia and Snake rivers in 1805 and 1806, they remarked in their journals on their amazement at the multitude of animals, including marine mammals, they saw.
Seals and sea lions — not blocked by dams, as they are today — once cruised nearly 200 miles upriver, all the way to what Lewis and Clark called the Great Falls of the Columbia: Celilo Falls.
Salmon, of course, were so plentiful that settlers later harvested them by the truckload to fertilize cleared land for farming. With 11 runs of salmon pushed to the brink of extinction by eight dams on the lower Columbia and Snake Rivers, today it is easy to forget the abundance of salmon that once fed tribes from the saltwater coast to the inland-most reaches of the Columbia watershed more than 900 miles away, said Bill McMillan, who is researching the historic and prehistoric Columbia River Basin ecosystem for NOAA fisheries. "It's called the shifting baseline syndrome.
"Our vision of what we consider to be abundant is usually from the time period that we have experienced."
As recently as the 1970s, Oregon fisheries managers were dosing headwater streams with Rotenone to kill off Pacific lamprey, an eel known for high nutritional value and harvested by the tribes since the melting of the glaciers.
"Kennewick Man would have feasted on this animal with a higher omega-3 fatty acid content than any marine mammal," said Jay Miller, a Seattle anthropologist who has studied the role of lamprey in tribal cultures, which continues today.
The tribes fighting for the return of Kennewick Man have depended on lamprey for some 10,000 years for its fatty meat.
Living off the land
Kennewick Man likely feasted from an abundant land, too, with something to eat in every season, noted Carl Gustafson, retired professor of archaeology from Washington State University. "It really wouldn't have been a bad world," Gustafson said.
The landscape of Kennewick Man would have looked much the same as today in the Mid-Columbia. Deer, elk and maybe bison would have been around 9,000 to 10,000 years ago, as well as the plants native people still rely on: biscuitroot, bitterroot, balsamroot and all kinds of lomatiums _ wild celery.
Kennewick Man probably would have traveled back and forth over the Cascades for trade, too, as well as for visiting and fun. Mastodon bone rods found in 1987 near Wenatchee at a site dated to 13,800 years ago are believed by tribal members to be carved sticks used to play sla-hal, a gambling game that dates to the tribes' earliest gatherings.
All that traveling, in gathering food, following trade routes and visiting for social and ceremonial gatherings is one reason that, to anthropologist Darby Stapp, of Richland, Owsley's flat declaration that Kennewick Man was from the coast is ridiculous.
"The first time I heard him say that it was like, 'Whoa, where are you coming from with that?' " Stapp said.
"We know more than likely people went back and forth in any scenario, but mostly I don't see why it matters. For me, he could be from the coast, it doesn't matter; obviously he was here, and I doubt it was for the first time, and the community obviously buried him."
More fundamentally, he and others doubted the value of findings coming out of research on the skeleton so far, or in the future.
"It's underwhelming; it's one individual. You are never going to learn a whole lot about a population from one individual," Stapp said.
Peter Lape, an archaeologist at the University of Washington, also questioned Owsley's flat statement that isotopes show Kennewick Man was actually a coastal man.
"Isotopes are very difficult to interpret. There are a lot of issues with calibrating and interpreting them; the best people have many caveats," Lape said. "He just puts it out there. The audacity of that is stunning; he is so arrogant it is amazing."
The information so far coming out of the research has been the equivalent of "celebrity gossip," Lape said. "It's that his right arm is bigger than the other, but that doesn't tell us anything about the past, it doesn't answer those questions, and all these years later we still don't have published results."
The Corps of Engineers lost patience with Owsley in April, reprimanding him in a letter for publishing nothing from his research so far beyond a children's book.
"I find this to be totally unacceptable," wrote Anthony Funkhouser, then brigadier general and Army division commander for the Corps.
"You and your colleagues have not produced anything for scientific journals despite your historic position of the collection's immense value to the scientific community and the general public. That value is only realized when the data and the interpretation of those data are available for scrutiny and discourse."
Owsley said in a telephone interview he is very aware of the need to finish writing up and publish results from the study, adding that his manuscript will be completed this summer for publication perhaps next year.
The manuscript is in more than 30 chapters. He said it took so long because it is "definitive."
"People have not seen this level of analysis before," Owsley said. " It takes the whole topic of ancient Americans to another level."
Asked about the book, he said: "At this point I just want to get it done. I don't want to get into debating."
A member of the community
Meanwhile, tribal elders say that Kennewick Man having been intentionally buried is proof enough he was part of their community.
"In our way, he could be from Samoa, he could be from anywhere," said John Sirois, chairman of the Colville Business Council. "But if he married into one of our tribes and took care of a family and fished with us, in our way, he was part of the community, he was part of the people. It was a matter of 'we are in this together, you are part of this community,' and to this day, that core element is still in place.
"Taking care of a person and making sure they are returned to earth is part of that cycle of life."
Vivian Harrison, NAGPRA coordinator for the Yakama Indian Nation, said that it is painful for the Ancient One's bones to remain unburied.
"Really, to me it's sad," Harrison said. "This is a human being, and in our belief, his journey has been interrupted by leaving the ground. It is disturbing to us. My main question here is when will they be finished? When will they let him go so he can return to the ground and finish his journey?"
Real harm is visited on the community when spirits are disturbed in their rest, said Barbara Friedlander Aripa, a Colville elder. She was one of a group of elders who did a ceremony for the Ancient One on the shore after the discovery.
Murders, car wrecks, shootings, accidents, chaos. In tribal teachings, they come from a world of spiritual unrest, she said. "Return him to the people. We want him put in the ground so his soul can rest."
Attempts to extract and analyze Kennewick Man's DNA from small pieces of bone taken from the skeleton should not be abandoned, said Dennis Stanford, curator of archaeology and director of the paleoecology program for the Smithsonian.
He is a member of the team publishing his research in Owsley's book.
Stanford said he realizes not all of the pieces in Kennewick Man's story are yet adding up.
For instance, he said, while Owsley declared Kennewick Man was from the coast, what then is he doing with a stone point buried in his hip that is associated with the Great Basin or Wenatchee area?
"How do you reconcile that?" Stanford asked. "In order to live on the coast and have that projectile point in him all that time, it doesn't add up that nicely."
But to him, that just shows the need for more analysis. While Stanford said he thinks the point is probably from the Great Basin, it is made of a type of stone that could be from many places.
"What is interesting about it is the entire Pacific Rim has those kinds of rocks," Stanford said. "It could have been from anywhere, like Japan. Or Mexico.
"In the old textbooks, people came from across the Bering Land Bridge, but we now know that boats have been invented more than 40,000 years ago. When you have boats, oceans and rivers are no longer barriers, they are highways."
"He is here for a reason," Stanford said, "and it is up to us to figure out what the reason is. From our point of view, it is up to us to tell his story."
Like Owsley, Stanford said he is looking forward to publication of the book.
"It's going to be the most-discussed skeleton in the world."
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Oct 18, 2013 - 01:33am PT
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Yahoo carried a very interesting news article today on a truly scientific study done by Dr. Bryan Sykes of Oxford University, one of the foremost experts on human DNA and early migrations.
Dr. Sykes sent out a call for all known biological samples taken from yeti and got several hundred. Of those, 70 had usable DNA. All but two were run of the mill Himalayan animals of different species. Two specimens however, from Ladakh and Bhutan respectively, both very remote locations, revealed a brown bear-polar bear hybrid, most closely related to a type of polar bear that lived thousands of years ago and are now extinct. A mixture of white and brown bears could well be the source of the orange color that are reported for yeti.
I've thought for a long time that Reinhold Messner was right about the yeti being a bear, although the yeti skins he saw and the bears he heard were from a different species. It's easy to see however, how all bear-like animals could get labeled yeti,if seen from a distance just as all snakes get labeled poisonous etc.
It's also easy to see how an orangish bear could be confused with orangutangs and the Tibetan story of human origins which was a mating between a female ogre and a monkey in a cave in eastern Tibet.
Dr. Sykes is doing further research which should clarify the situation even more and the fact that he was able to identify DNA from 70 specimens makes the American vetinarian's attempts at identifying DNA from a purported bigfoot, even more suspect although a polar bear-brown bear hybrid could certainly have migrated across the Bering Strait.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Oct 18, 2013 - 01:43am PT
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I can put my heel in my eyesocket..Once by accident.
Does that count?
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Feb 23, 2014 - 02:59pm PT
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America Unearthed had an interesting segment about Kennewick Man and the probability that he was Polynesian. The show title is about a spearhead found in Maui (it does feature a great NPS tooling story), but a big chunk of the show is about Kennewick Man.
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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
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Feb 23, 2014 - 03:33pm PT
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My favorite Big Feet belong to a Little Tramp.
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Rock!...oopsie.
Trad climber
the pitch above you
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Feb 23, 2014 - 05:18pm PT
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My new longboard deck:
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Feb 23, 2014 - 05:20pm PT
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met a few of em at stoney point
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Mar 14, 2014 - 08:59pm PT
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'New' giant ape found in DR Congo
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3730574.stm
Scientists believe they have discovered a new group of giant apes in the jungles of central Africa.
The animals, with characteristics of both gorillas and chimpanzees, have been sighted in the north of the Democratic Republic of Congo.
According to local villagers, the apes are ferocious, and even capable of killing lions.
A report about the mysterious creatures is published in this week's edition of the UK magazine New Scientist.
If they are a new species of primate, it could be one of the most important wildlife discoveries in decades.
The discovery of these apes "reveals just how much we still have to learn about our closest living relatives," New Scientist says.
'NEW' GIANT APE
Large, black faces (like gorillas)
Up to two metres tall (6.5ft)
Weigh 85kg-102kg (187lb-224lb)
Males make nests on the ground (like gorillas)
Diet rich in fruit (like chimps)
They stand up to two metres tall, the size of gorillas, and like gorillas, they nest on the ground, not in trees.
But they live hundreds of km away from any other known gorilla populations, and their diet is closer to that of chimpanzees.
Primatologist Shelly Williams is thought to be the only scientist to have seen the apes.
During her visit to DR Congo two years ago, she says she captured them on video and located their nests.
She describes her encounter with them: "Four suddenly came rushing out of the bush towards me," she told New Scientist.
"If this had been a bluff charge, they would have been screaming to intimidate us. These guys were quiet. And they were huge. They were coming in for the kill. I was directly in front of them, and as soon as they saw my face, they stopped and disappeared."
Mystery
The discovery has baffled scientists. There are three controversial possibilities to explain the origin of the mystery apes:
They are a new species of ape
They are giant chimpanzees, much larger than any so far recorded, but behave like gorillas
They could be hybrids, the product of gorillas mating with chimpanzees.
So far, researchers have little to go on, but they now plan to return to northern DR Congo to study the apes further.
In the meantime, there are fears that unless measures are taken to protect them, poaching could threaten this new group of primates before the mystery of their identity is resolved.
"This is a lawless area," says Kenyan-based Swiss photographer Karl Ammann, who tipped Ms Williams off about the apes.
"The government has practically no control over hunting. If we found something interesting it would attract more investment. People would be more interested in conserving it."
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Mar 14, 2014 - 11:51pm PT
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I'll bet I've seen more of the Yosemite backcountry than 98% of the folks here, and I have seen every mammal likely there except wolverine. No bigfoot, or any hunch of one, ever. On the ground during grid searches, we found a lot of interesting things, but never any sign. I seriously ground truthed the place for well over a decade, low and high, north and south, east and west, and in between; not a trace. And, I looked, listened, smelled and sensed. I'm disappointed and sorry; nothing ever. Same with my many other ramblings from Mt Brewer to Mt Rose. Not there.
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Sioux Juan
Big Wall climber
Costa mesa
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Mar 15, 2014 - 10:37am PT
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My Bigfoot encounter is when my climbing shoes are too small......ouch !
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