Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
|
|
I'm a skeptic at heart.... Some of his revelations were simply amazing!"
Sounds like a true skeptic to me! She knows what is true from the bible and she couldn't find any inconsistencies. Wow. That coming from an obviously awesome intellect is good enough for me! I especially like that it confirms her firsthand, undisputable, scientific, factual knowledge of the afterlife. And the icing on the cake is that it is written as a child would describe it, because no adult could possibly reproduce such prose.
|
|
go-B
climber
Revelation 7:12
|
|
Reincarnation = (The Judgement)either Heaven or Hell? But you will remember!
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
|
|
go-B
climber
Revelation 7:12
|
|
what about coming back as a music savant?
I don't know, but we all have some gifts from God and some people were born that way?
Edit; Look at Bach, he had like eighteen children was a teacher and wrote a new piece of music each Sunday for years and years, all to the glory of God!
|
|
go-B
climber
Revelation 7:12
|
|
It's for me to know and you to find out! lol
Like the movie Shine, where that's all they can do?
It's a mystery, I think God is showing us something to blow us away!
|
|
illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
"One Nation, Under God"
A Few Declarations of Founding Fathers and Early Statesmen on Jesus, Christianity, and the Bible
(This list is by no means exhaustive; many other Founders could be included, and even with those who appear below, additional quotes could have been used.) -David Barton 05/2008
John Adams
SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; JUDGE; DIPLOMAT; ONE OF TWO SIGNERS OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS; SECOND PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.1
The Holy Ghost carries on the whole Christian system in this earth. Not a baptism, not a marriage, not a sacrament can be administered but by the Holy Ghost. . . . There is no authority, civil or religious – there can be no legitimate government but what is administered by this Holy Ghost. There can be no salvation without it. All without it is rebellion and perdition, or in more orthodox words damnation.2
Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company: I mean hell.3
The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity.4
Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited. . . . What a Eutopia – what a Paradise would this region be!5
I have examined all religions, and the result is that the Bible is the best book in the world.6
John Quincy Adams
SIXTH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES; DIPLOMAT; SECRETARY OF STATE; U. S. SENATOR; U. S. REPRESENTATIVE; “OLD MAN ELOQUENT”; “HELL-HOUND OF ABOLITION”
My hopes of a future life are all founded upon the Gospel of Christ and I cannot cavil or quibble away [evade or object to]. . . . the whole tenor of His conduct by which He sometimes positively asserted and at others countenances [permits] His disciples in asserting that He was God.7
The hope of a Christian is inseparable from his faith. Whoever believes in the Divine inspiration of the Holy Scriptures must hope that the religion of Jesus shall prevail throughout the earth. Never since the foundation of the world have the prospects of mankind been more encouraging to that hope than they appear to be at the present time. And may the associated distribution of the Bible proceed and prosper till the Lord shall have made “bare His holy arm in the eyes of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God” [Isaiah 52:10].8
In the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior. The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity.9
Samuel Adams
SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; “FATHER OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION”; RATIFIER OF THE U. S. CONSTITUTION; GOVERNOR OF MASSACHUSETTS
I . . . [rely] upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins.10
The name of the Lord (says the Scripture) is a strong tower; thither the righteous flee and are safe [Proverbs 18:10]. Let us secure His favor and He will lead us through the journey of this life and at length receive us to a better.11
I conceive we cannot better express ourselves than by humbly supplicating the Supreme Ruler of the world . . . that the confusions that are and have been among the nations may be overruled by the promoting and speedily bringing in the holy and happy period when the kingdoms of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ may be everywhere established, and the people willingly bow to the scepter of Him who is the Prince of Peace.12
He also called on the State of Massachusetts to pray that . . .
the peaceful and glorious reign of our Divine Redeemer may be known and enjoyed throughout the whole family of mankind.13
we may with one heart and voice humbly implore His gracious and free pardon through Jesus Christ, supplicating His Divine aid . . . [and] above all to cause the religion of Jesus Christ, in its true spirit, to spread far and wide till the whole earth shall be filled with His glory.14
with true contrition of heart to confess their sins to God and implore forgiveness through the merits and mediation of Jesus Christ our Savior.15
Josiah Bartlett
MILITARY OFFICER; SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; JUDGE; GOVERNOR OF NEW HAMPSHIRE
Called on the people of New Hampshire . . . to confess before God their aggravated transgressions and to implore His pardon and forgiveness through the merits and mediation of Jesus Christ . . . [t]hat the knowledge of the Gospel of Jesus Christ may be made known to all nations, pure and undefiled religion universally prevail, and the earth be fill with the glory of the Lord.16
Gunning Bedford
MILITARY OFFICER; MEMBER OF THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS; SIGNER OF THE CONSTITUTION; FEDERAL JUDGE
To the triune God – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost – be ascribed all honor and dominion, forevermore – Amen.17
Elias Boudinot
PRESIDENT OF CONGRESS; SIGNED THE PEACE TREATY TO END THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION; FIRST ATTORNEY ADMITTED TO THE U. S. SUPREME COURT BAR; FRAMER OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS; DIRECTOR OF THE U. S. MINT
Let us enter on this important business under the idea that we are Christians on whom the eyes of the world are now turned… [L]et us earnestly call and beseech Him, for Christ’s sake, to preside in our councils. . . . We can only depend on the all powerful influence of the Spirit of God, Whose Divine aid and assistance it becomes us as a Christian people most devoutly to implore. Therefore I move that some minister of the Gospel be requested to attend this Congress every morning . . . in order to open the meeting with prayer.18
A letter to his daughter:
You have been instructed from your childhood in the knowledge of your lost state by nature – the absolute necessity of a change of heart and an entire renovation of soul to the image of Jesus Christ – of salvation through His meritorious righteousness only – and the indispensable necessity of personal holiness without which no man shall see the Lord [Hebrews 12:14]. You are well acquainted that the most perfect and consummate doctrinal knowledge is of no avail without it operates on and sincerely affects the heart, changes the practice, and totally influences the will – and that without the almighty power of the Spirit of God enlightening your mind, subduing your will, and continually drawing you to Himself, you can do nothing. . . . And may the God of your parents (for many generations past) seal instruction to your soul and lead you to Himself through the blood of His too greatly despised Son, Who notwithstanding, is still reclaiming the world to God through that blood, not imputing to them their sins. To Him be glory forever!19
For nearly half a century have I anxiously and critically studied that invaluable treasure [the Bible]; and I still scarcely ever take it up that I do not find something new – that I do not receive some valuable addition to my stock of knowledge or perceive some instructive fact never observed before. In short, were you to ask me to recommend the most valuable book in the world, I should fix on the Bible as the most instructive both to the wise and ignorant. Were you to ask me for one affording the most rational and pleasing entertainment to the inquiring mind, I should repeat, it is the Bible; and should you renew the inquiry for the best philosophy or the most interesting history, I should still urge you to look into your Bible. I would make it, in short, the Alpha and Omega of knowledge.20
Jacob Broom
LEGISLATOR; SIGNER OF THE CONSTITUTION
A letter to his son, James, attending Princeton University:
I flatter myself you will be what I wish, but don’t be so much flatterer as to relax of your application – don’t forget to be a Christian. I have said much to you on this head, and I hope an indelible impression is made.21
Charles Carroll
SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; SELECTED AS DELEGATE TO THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION; FRAMER OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS; U. S. SENATOR
On the mercy of my Redeemer I rely for salvation and on His merits, not on the works I have done in obedience to His precepts.22
Grateful to Almighty God for the blessings which, through Jesus Christ Our Lord, He had conferred on my beloved country in her emancipation and on myself in permitting me, under circumstances of mercy, to live to the age of 89 years, and to survive the fiftieth year of independence, adopted by Congress on the 4th of July 1776, which I originally subscribed on the 2d day of August of the same year and of which I am now the last surviving signer.23
I, Charles Carroll. . . . give and bequeath my soul to God who gave it, my body to the earth, hoping that through and by the merits, sufferings, and mediation of my only Savior and Jesus Christ, I may be admitted into the Kingdom prepared by God for those who love, fear and truly serve Him.24
Congress, 1854
The great, vital, and conservative element in our system is the belief of our people in the pure doctrines and the divine truths of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.25
Congress, U. S. House Judiciary Committee, 1854
Had the people, during the Revolution, had a suspicion of any attempt to war against Christianity, that Revolution would have been strangled in its cradle... In this age, there can be no substitute for Christianity... That was the religion of the founders of the republic and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.26
John Dickinson
SIGNER OF THE CONSTITUTION; GOVERNOR OF PENNSYLVANIA; GOVERNOR OF DELAWARE; GENERAL IN THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION
Rendering thanks to my Creator for my existence and station among His works, for my birth in a country enlightened by the Gospel and enjoying freedom, and for all His other kindnesses, to Him I resign myself, humbly confiding in His goodness and in His mercy through Jesus Christ for the events of eternity.27
[Governments] caould not give the rights essential to happiness… We claim them from a higher source: from the King of kings, and Lord of all the earth.28
Gabriel Duvall
SOLDIER; JUDGE; SELECTED AS DELEGATE TO THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION; COMPTROLLER OF THE U. S. TREASURY; U. S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE
I resign my soul into the hands of the Almighty Who gave it, in humble hopes of His mercy through our Savior Jesus Christ.29
Benjamin Franklin
SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION; DIPLOMAT; PRINTER; SCIENTIST; SIGNER OF THE CONSTITUTION; GOVERNOR OF PENNSYLVANIA
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and His religion as He left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see.30
The body of Benjamin Franklin, printer, like the cover of an old book, its contents torn out and stripped of its lettering and guilding, lies here, food for worms. Yet the work itself shall not be lost; for it will, as he believed, appear once more in a new and more beautiful edition, corrected and amended by the Author.31 (FRANKLIN’S EULOGY THAT HE WROTE FOR HIMSELF)
Elbridge Gerry
SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; MEMBER OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION; FRAMER OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS, GOVERNOR OF MASSACHUSETTS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
He called on the State of Massachusetts to pray that . . .
with one heart and voice we may prostrate ourselves at the throne of heavenly grace and present to our Great Benefactor sincere and unfeigned thanks for His infinite goodness and mercy towards us from our birth to the present moment for having above all things illuminated us by the Gospel of Jesus Christ, presenting to our view the happy prospect of a blessed immortality.32
And for our unparalleled ingratitude to that Adorable Being Who has seated us in a land irradiated by the cheering beams of the Gospel of Jesus Christ . . . let us fall prostrate before offended Deity, confess sincerely and penitently our manifold sins and our unworthiness of the least of His Divine favors, fervently implore His pardon through the merits of our mediator.33
And deeply impressed with a scene of our unparalleled ingratitude, let us contemplate the blessings which have flowed from the unlimited grave and favor of offended Deity, that we are still permitted to enjoy the first of Heaven’s blessings: the Gospel of Jesus Christ. 34
Alexander Hamilton
REVOLUTIONARY GENERAL; SIGNER OF THE CONSTITUTION; AUTHOR OF THE FEDERALIST PAPERS; SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY
Following his duel with Aaron Burr, in those final twenty four hours while life still remained in him, Hamilton called for two ministers, the Rev. J. M. Mason and the Rev. Benjamin Moore, to pray with him and administer Communion to him. Each of those two ministers reported what transpired. The Rev. Mason recounted:
[General Hamilton said] “I went to the field determined not to take his life.” He repeated his disavowal of all intention to hurt Mr. Burr; the anguish of his mind in recollecting what had passed; and his humble hope of forgiveness from his God. I recurred to the topic of the Divine compassion; the freedom of pardon in the Redeemer Jesus to perishing sinners. “That grace, my dear General, which brings salvation, is rich, rich” – “Yes,” interrupted he, “it is rich grace.” “And on that grace,” continued I, “a sinner has the highest encouragement to repose his confidence, because it is tendered to him upon the surest foundation; the Scrip¬ture testifying that we have redemption through the blood of Jesus, the forgiveness of sins according to the richness of His grace.” Here the General, letting go my hand, which he had held from the moment I sat down at his bed side, clasped his hands together, and, looking up towards Heaven, said, with emphasis, “I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ.” 35
The Rev. Benjamin Moore reported:
mmediately after he was brought from [the field] . . . a message was sent informing me of the sad event, accompanied by a request from General Hamilton that I would come to him for the purpose of administering the Holy Communion. I went. . . . I proceeded to converse with him on the subject of his receiving the Communion; and told him that with respect to the qualifications of those who wished to become partakers of that holy ordinance, my inquires could not be made in language more expressive than that which was used by our [own] Church. – [I asked], “Do you sincerely repent of your sins past? Have you a lively faith in God’s mercy through Christ, with a thankful remembrance of the death of Christ? And are you disposed to live in love and charity with all men?” He lifted up his hands and said, “With the utmost sincerity of heart I can answer those questions in the affirmative – I have no ill will against Col. Burr. I met him with a fixed resolution to do him no harm – I forgive all that happened.” . . . The Communion was then administered, which he received with great devotion, and his heart afterwards appeared to be perfectly at rest. I saw him again this morning, when, with his last faltering words, he expressed a strong confidence in the mercy of God through the intercession of the Redeemer. I remained with him until 2 o’clock this afternoon, when death closed the awful scene – he expired without a struggle, and almost without a groan. By reflecting on this melancholy event, let the humble believer be encouraged ever to hold fast that precious faith which is the only source of true consolation in the last extremity of nature. [And l]et the infidel be persuaded to abandon his opposition to that Gospel which the strong, inquisitive, and comprehensive mind of a Hamilton embraced.36
One other consequence of Hamilton’s untimely death was that it permanently halted the formation of a religious society Hamilton had proposed. Hamilton suggested that it be named the Christian Constitutional Society, and listed two goals for its formation: first, the support of the Christian religion; and second, the support of the Constitution of the United States. This organization was to have numerous clubs throughout each state which would meet regularly and work to elect to office those who reflected the goals of the Christian Constitutional Society. 37
John Hancock
SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; PRESIDENT OF CONGRESS; REVOLUTIONARY GENERAL; GOVERNOR OF MASSACHUSETTS
Sensible of the importance of Christian piety and virtue to the order and happiness of a state, I cannot but earnestly commend to you every measure for their support and encouragement.38
He called on the entire state to pray “that universal happiness may be established in the world [and] that all may bow to the scepter of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the whole earth be filled with His glory.”39
He also called on the State of Massachusetts to pray . . .
that all nations may bow to the scepter of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and that the whole earth may be filled with his glory.40
that the spiritual kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ may be continually increasing until the whole earth shall be filled with His glory.41
to confess their sins and to implore forgiveness of God through the merits of the Savior of the World.42
to cause the benign religion of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to be known, understood, and practiced among all the inhabitants of the earth.43
to confess their sins before God and implore His forgiveness through the merits and mediation of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.44
that He would finally overrule all events to the advancement of the Redeemer’s kingdom and the establishment of universal peace and good will among men.45
that the kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ may be established in peace and righteousness among all the nations of the earth.46
that with true contrition of heart we may confess our sins, resolve to forsake them, and implore the Divine forgiveness, through the merits and mediation of Jesus Christ, our Savior. . . . And finally to overrule all the commotions in the world to the spreading the true religion of our Lord Jesus Christ in its purity and power among all the people of the earth.47
John Hart
JUDGE; LEGISLATOR; SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION
[T]hanks be given unto Almighty God therefore, and knowing that it is appointed for all men once to die and after that the judgment [Hebrews 9:27] . . . principally, I give and recommend my soul into the hands of Almighty God who gave it and my body to the earth to be buried in a decent and Christian like manner . . . to receive the same again at the general resurrection by the mighty power of God.48
Patrick Henry
REVOLUTIONARY GENERAL; LEGISLATOR; “THE VOICE OF LIBERTY”; RATIFIER OF THE U. S. CONSTITUTION; GOVERNOR OF VIRGINIA
Being a Christian… is a character which I prize far above all this world has or can boast.49
The Bible… is a book worth more than all the other books that were ever printed.50
Righteousness alone can exalt America as a nation. Whoever thou art, remember this; and in thy sphere practice virtue thyself, and encourage it in others.51
The great pillars of all government and of social life [are] virtue, morality, and religion. This is the armor, my friend, and this alone, that renders us invincible.52
This is all the inheritance I can give to my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed.53
Samuel Huntington
SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; PRESIDENT OF CONGRESS; JUDGE; GOVERNOR OF CONNECTICUT
It becomes a people publicly to acknowledge the over-ruling hand of Divine Providence and their dependence upon the Supreme Being as their Creator and Merciful Preserver . . . and with becoming humility and sincere repentance to supplicate the pardon that we may obtain forgiveness through the merits and mediation of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.54
James Iredell
RATIFIER OF THE U. S. CONSTITUTION; ATTORNEY GENERAL OF NORTH CAROLINA; U. S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE APPOINTED BY PRESIDENT GEORGE WASHINGTON
For my part, I am free and ready enough to declare that I think the Christian religion is a Divine institution; and I pray to God that I may never forget the precepts of His religion or suffer the appearance of an inconsistency in my principles and practice.55
John Jay
PRESIDENT OF CONGRESS; DIPLOMAT; AUTHOR OF THE FEDERALIST PAPERS; ORIGINAL CHIEF JUSTICE OF THE U. S. SUPREME COURT; GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK
Condescend, merciful Father! to grant as far as proper these imperfect petitions, to accept these inadequate thanksgivings, and to pardon whatever of sin hath mingled in them for the sake of Jesus Christ, our blessed Lord and Savior; unto Whom, with Thee, and the blessed Spirit, ever one God, be rendered all honor and glory, now and forever. 56
Unto Him who is the author and giver of all good, I render sincere and humble thanks for His manifold and unmerited blessings, and especially for our redemption and salvation by His beloved Son. . . . Blessed be His holy name.57
Mercy and grace and favor did come by Jesus Christ, and also that truth which verified the promises and predictions concerning Him and which exposed and corrected the various errors which had been imbibed respecting the Supreme Being, His attributes, laws, and dispensations.58
By conveying the Bible to people . . . we certainly do them a most interesting act of kindness. We thereby enable them to learn that man was originally created and placed in a state of happiness, but, becoming disobedient, was subjected to the degradation and evils which he and his posterity have since experienced. The Bible will also inform them that our gracious Creator has provided for us a Redeemer in whom all the nations of the earth should be blessed – that this Redeemer has made atonement “for the sins of the whole world,” and thereby reconciling the Divine justice with the Divine mercy, has opened a way for our redemption and salvation; and that these inestimable benefits are of the free gift and grace of God, not of our deserving, nor in our power to deserve. The Bible will also [encourage] them with many explicit and consoling assurances of the Divine mercy to our fallen race, and with repeated invitations to accept the offers of pardon and reconciliation. . . . They, therefore, who enlist in His service, have the highest encouragement to fulfill the du¬ties assigned to their respective stations; for most certain it is, that those of His followers who [participate in] His conquests will also participate in the transcendent glories and blessings of His Triumph.59
I recommend a general and public return of praise and thanksgiving to Him from whose goodness these blessings descend. The most effectual means of securing the continuance of our civil and religious liberties is always to remember with reverence and gratitude the source from which they flow.60
The Bible is the best of all books, for it is the word of God and teaches us the way to be happy in this world and in the next. Continue therefore to read it and to regulate your life by its precepts.61
[T]he evidence of the truth of Christianity requires only to be carefully examined to produce conviction in candid minds... they who undertake that task will derive advantages.62
Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation, to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.63
Thomas Jefferson
SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; DIPLOMAT; GOVERNOR OF VIRGINIA; SECRETARY OF STATE; THIRD PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of man.64
The practice of morality being necessary for the well being of society, He [God] has taken care to impress its precepts so indelibly on our hearts that they shall not be effaced by the subtleties of our brain. We all agree in the obligation of the moral principles of Jesus and nowhere will they be found delivered in greater purity than in His discourses.65
I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to His doctrines in preference to all others.66
I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ.67
William Samuel Johnson
JUDGE; MEMBER OF THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS; SIGNER OF THE CONSTITUTION; FRAMER OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS; PRESIDENT OF COLUMBIA COLLEGE; U. S. SENATOR
. . . am endeavoring . . . to attend to my own duty only as a Christian. . . . let us take care that our Christianity, though put to the test . . . be not shaken, and that our love for things really good wax not cold.68
In an address to graduates:
You this day. . . . have, by the favor of Providence and the attention of friends, received a public education, the purpose whereof hath been to qualify you the better to serve your Creator and your country. You have this day invited this audience to witness the progress you have made. . . . Thus you assume the character of scholars, of men, and of citizens. . . . Go, then, . . . and exercise them with diligence, fidelity, and zeal. . . . Your first great duties, you are sensible, are those you owe to Heaven, to your Creator and Redeemer. Let these be ever present to your minds, and exemplified in your lives and conduct. Imprint deep upon your minds the principles of piety towards God, and a reverence and fear of His holy name. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom and its [practice] is everlasting [happiness] . . . . Reflect deeply and often upon [your] relations [with God]. Remember that it is in God you live and move and have your being, – that, in the language of David, He is about your bed and about your path and spieth out all your ways – that there is not a thought in your hearts, nor a word upon your tongues, but lo! He knoweth them al¬together, and that He will one day call you to a strict account for all your conduct in this mortal life. Remember, too, that you are the redeemed of the Lord, that you are bought with a price, even the inestimable price of the precious blood of the Son of God. Adore Jehovah, therefore, as your God and your Judge. Love, fear, and serve Him as your Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier. Acquaint yourselves with Him in His word and holy ordinances. . . . [G]o forth into the world firmly resolved neither to be allured by its vanities nor contaminated by its vices, but to run with patience and perseverance, with firmness and [cheerfulness], the glorious career of religion, honor, and virtue. . . . Finally, . . . in the elegant and expressive language are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report, if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things” – and do them, and the God of peace shall be with you, to whose most gracious protection I now commend you, humbly imploring Almighty Goodness that He will be your guardian and your guide, your protector and the rock of your defense, your Savior and your God.69
James Kent
JUDGE; LAW PROFESSOR; “FATHER OF AMERICAN JURISPRUDENCE”
My children, I wish to talk to you. During my early and middle life I was, perhaps, rather skeptical with regard to some of the truths of Christianity. Not that I did not have the utmost respect for religion and always read my Bible, but the doctrine of the atonement was one I never could understand, and I felt inclined to consider as impossible to be received in the way Divines taught it. I believe I was rather inclined to Unitarianism; but of late years my views have altered. I believe in the doctrines of the prayer books as I understand them, and hope to be saved through the merits of Jesus Christ. . . . My object in telling you this is that if anything happens to me, you might know, and perhaps it would console you to remember, that on this point my mind is clear: I rest my hopes of salvation on the Lord Jesus Christ.70
Francis Scott Key
U. S. ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA; AUTHOR OF THE “STAR SPANGLED BANNER”
[M]ay I always hear that you are following the guidance of that blessed Spirit that will lead you into all truth, leaning on that Almighty arm that has been extended to deliver you, trusting only in the only Savior, and going on in your way to Him rejoicing.71
James Madison
SIGNER OF THE CONSTITUTION; AUTHOR OF THE FEDERALIST PAPERS; FRAMER OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS; SECRETARY OF STATE; FOURTH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
A watchful eye must be kept on ourselves lest, while we are building ideal monuments of renown and bliss here, we neglect to have our names enrolled in the Annals of Heaven.72
I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of religion or against temporal enjoyments, even the most rational and manly, than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and [who] are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare their unsatisfactoriness by becoming fervent advocates in the cause of Christ; and I wish you may give in your evidence in this way.73
James Manning
MEMBER OF THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS; PRESIDENT OF BROWN UNIVERSITY
I rejoice that the religion of Jesus prevails in your parts; I can tell you the same agreeable news from this quarter. Yesterday I returned from Piscataway in East Jersey, where was held a Baptist annual meeting (I think the largest I ever saw) but much more remarkable still for the Divine influences which God was pleased to grant. Fifteen were baptized; a number during the three days professed to experience a change of heart. Christians were remarkably quickened; multitudes appeared.74
Henry Marchant
MEMBER OF THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS; ATTORNEY GENERAL OF RHODE ISLAND; RATIFIER OF THE U. S. CONSTITUTION; FEDERAL JUDGE APPOINTED BY PRESIDENT GEORGE WASHINGTON
And may God grant that His grace may really affect your heart with suitable impressions of His goodness. Remember that God made you, that God keeps you alive and preserves you from all harm, and gives you all the powers and the capacity whereby you are able to read of Him and of Jesus Christ, your Savior and Redeemer, and to do every other needful business of life. And while you look around you and see the great privileges and advantages you have above what other children have (of learning to read and write, of being taught the meaning of the great truths of the Bible), you must remember not to be proud on that account but to bless God and be thankful and endeavor in your turn to assist others with the knowledge you may gain.75(to his daughter)
George Mason
DELEGATE AT THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION; “FATHER OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS”
I give and bequeath my soul to Almighty God that gave it me, hoping that through the meritorious death and passion of our Savior and Redeemer Jesus Christ to receive absolution and remission for all my sins.76
My soul I resign into the hands of my Almighty Creator, Whose tender mercies are all over His works. . humbly hoping from His unbounded mercy and benevolence, through the merits of my blessed Savior, a remission of my sins.77
James McHenry
REVOLUTIONARY OFFICER; SIGNER OF THE CONSTITUTION; RATIFIER OF THE U. S. CONSTITUTION; SECRETARY OF WAR UNDER PRESIDENTS GEORGE WASHINGTON AND JOHN ADAMS
[P]ublic utility pleads most forcibly for the general distribution of the Holy Scriptures. Without the Bible, in vain do we increase penal laws and draw entrenchments around our institutions.78
Bibles are strong protections. Where they abound, men cannot pursue wicked courses and at the same time enjoy quiet conscience.79
Thomas McKean
SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; PRESIDENT OF CONGRESS; RATIFIER OF THE U. S. CONSTITUTION; CHIEF JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT OF PENNSYLVANIA; GOVERNOR OF PENNSYLVANIA; GOVERNOR OF DELAWARE
In the case Respublica v. John Roberts,80 John Roberts was sentenced to death after a jury found him guilty of treason. Chief Justice McKean then told him:
You will probably have but a short time to live. Before you launch into eternity, it behooves you to improve the time that may be allowed you in this world: it behooves you most seriously to reflect upon your past conduct; to repent of your evil deeds; to be incessant in prayers to the great and merciful God to forgive your manifold transgressions and sins; to teach you to rely upon the merit and passion of a dear Redeemer, and thereby to avoid those regions of sorrow – those doleful shades where peace and rest can never dwell, where even hope cannot enter. It behooves you to seek the [fellowship], advice, and prayers of pious and good men; to be [persistent] at the Throne of Grace, and to learn the way that leadeth to happiness. May you, reflecting upon these things, and pursuing the will of the great Father of light and life, be received into [the] company and society of angels and archangels and the spirits of just men made perfect; and may you be qualified to enter into the joys of Heaven – joys unspeakable and full of glory!
|
|
Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
Oh, ruck me funning.
|
|
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
Please do not lay genocide at the feet of Christ.
He had nothing to do with it. Many atrocities are done in Christ's name. Many atrocities are done in GOD's name.
He has nothing to do with it.
Haven't you read the Good Book where Christ says to so called "believers" and those who did works in his name, "Depart from me you workers of iniquity. I never knew you." (to paraphrase Jesus)?
Manifest destiny, genocide of Native North Americans, is not GOD/Christ's doing or will. Did he know that is what we would choose to do? Yes. Does GOD use our bad decisions to his advantage? Yes. He isn't fooled. And he will make use of our bad behavior, or our misdeeds, or our crimes against humanity to bring about change and judgement against a people.
Manifest Destiny
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_Destiny
Many of faith do not know that the United States of America is indeed discussed throughout the Bible. Learn all you can about "Mystery Babylon" and you will learn the fate of the United States.
There is only one nation that fulfills all the prophecy throughout the Bible regarding "Mystery Babylon," and that is the USA.
The United States has done many wonderful things throughout its history, but we have also done a great many atrocities. GOD knows.
We can do the right thing right now as a Nation and turn back toward GOD and do what is right. We need to treat the rest of the World right, in truth, with justice, with caring, and with love. Doing so we would hold back GOD's judgement for a time as long as we return back to him, and do his will. We need to use our power for good and not evil. It could be different. It could. But, many in power who are corrupt, are bent on destroying our Nation, one way or another.
|
|
paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
|
|
It's fascinating to consider that every creature that has ever existed on this planet, every plant, every organism, every living thing has died or will die, and that more than ninety percent of the species that have existed on the Earth are now extinct... how can one discern from the extreme violence and largess of nature that behind this chaotic and extravagant violence exists a providential God with a plan and an interest in your well being?
Where is the evidence of a plan? Where is the evidence for an inherent goodness? Where is the evidence for God's love beyond the idiosyncratic feelings of believers and their self proclaimed divine texts?
If you are miraculously saved by God through prayer from some disease or some danger, it's only to postpone the inevitable end that is so grave and constant in human experience. All must experience death.
If there was a God wouldn't it be a little kinder than that.
Ultimately God is only the feary father that begins to fade in any man's life. The scary being that both supported and punished us and on whom we depended for protection. We can't let him go and so he continues as a metaphor for a necessary obedience, and a resulting approval.
|
|
illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
Paul, again...
"Dear Brother Gary,
Anytime you are engaging in validating the truth of God and His Word (apologetics), you must recognize that you may well be like a brilliant lawyer delivering a watertight case that leaves no room for reasonable doubt, but the jury is so corrupted and distracted that no amount of evidence will suffice to prompt them to render a fair and truthful verdict. That being said, we are nevertheless instructed to
"sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear" (1 Peter 3:15). Notice the emphasis in this verse. FIRST and FOREMOST, apologetics is about
honoring God, not convincing the skeptic, though we should have an ordered defense that is persuasive and reasonable. Pray about your motives, brother, before you wade into the forum of this world's willful ignorance, which argues from the perspective of the natural mind. Cater to intellectual integrity, but never pander to intellectual arrogance.
Peter, in his second epistle, warns that the things written by
"our beloved brother Paul" are in some cases
"hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction" (2 Peter 3:15,16). So it should not be surprising that Paul's epistle to the Romans, which is such a superb example of clearheaded reasoning, may be rejected as foolishness by the natural mind (1 Corinthians 2:14). As for me, the more times a I read Romans 11:32 (why should we stop at only 5 times as your poison-pen pal suggests?), the more sense it makes to me, until I am led to exclaim with Paul
"O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out!" (Romans 11:33). Let's consider this verse that evokes the vitriol of your friend:
"For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all" (Romans 11:32). Paul gives us a logical and historical account of Israel's past (Romans 9), Israel's present (Romans 10), and Israel's future (Romans 11), showing the marvelous tapestry of God's workmanship in the nation Israel, which He will again exalt as the head of the nations when He completes His work with them. Israel was chosen to be a spectacle to the nations around them, whether by their obedience and blessing or their rebellion and chastisement. In either case God has concluded that "all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). The Law condemns Jew and Gentile alike. If we could keep the Law to the satisfaction of God's holiness, then we would not need faith in God, since "the Law is not of faith: but the man that doeth them shall live in them" (Galatians 3:12). So what is so unreasonable about Romans 11:32 in the light of God's gift of righteousness which comes by faith? God puts us all in the circle of unbelief; then He says that everyone in that circle qualifies in to receive His salvation freely, Jew and Gentile alike. Everyone is equally able (and urged!) to step out of that qualifying circle of unbelief and come into the sphere of saving faith that responds to God's gracious offer of salvation, purchased at heaven's highest expense. Obviously, we're not talking about the circle of mere intellectual unbelief, but the unbelief that has not exercised the God-given prerogative to receive the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior (John 1:12,13). We can intellectually believe that the Lord is knocking on the door of our heart (Revelations 3:20), and still neglect to open it in spite of the enormous body of evidence (Hebrew 2:3,4).
How absurdly the natural mind concludes that "the Christian doctrine unravels around Romans 11:32" as your friend as asserted, obviously ignoring the careful case that Paul built in Romans chapters 1-3, laying the 7-fold foundation of the Gospel's credibility (refer to attached, Why Should You Believe the Bible?, addressing verses 1-4 & 18-20), and then laying out the threefold view of the sinful society (Romans 1:21-32), the self-righteous society (Romans 2:1-16), and finally the Semitic society (Romans 2:17-29), proving finally that
"both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin" (Romans 3:9).
So, brother Gary, we can expect blind unbelief to rant, ignoring the obvious, casting aside the marvelous wisdom of God as foolishness. A fool can deny that there is no such thing as gravity after scaling Yosemite's El Capitán, imagining that he can simply float to the bottom. Neither the sincerity of his faith nor the force of his argument will diminish the effect of the law of gravity. Nor shall it ever change the Law of God that demands righteousness, which can only be obtained by saving faith in Christ,
"even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ" (Romans 3:22). How foolishly the unbeliever replies against God!
"For what if some did not believe? Shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?" (Romans 3:3).
Never.
God bless you, brother Gary. Above all, honor God.
|
|
illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
"right there, ID, you've pretty much defined every islamic theocracy from the caliphate onward. of course, they prefer the name "allah"."
"pretty much" but not even close...nice try Tony. "allah" is not the God that's in my KJV! The top of the "ladder rung" in islam is "jihad," according to the Ko'ran. God forbid!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCHb9dAAx0w (Parts 1-5)
|
|
illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
"Cater to intellectual integrity, but never pander to intellectual arrogance."
"Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night." Psalm 1:1-2
Good advice...I'm out.
Glory to God!
|
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
my, people do get going. it was amazing, though, for about six posts there was actual dialogue between dr. F and gobee. cheers for that, fellas.
klimmer, i'm afraid i do lay a lot at the feet of jesus. the modern world, especially the powerful, dominant nations in it, are pretty much of jesus's making, the result of two millenia of christianity. you can turn jesus's own words against him: "by their works you will know them". the good guys do good works, the bad guys do bad things. christians stopped being good guys when they turned to fascism, which happened when they got into bed with the roman empire. suddenly the people who were being fed to the lions started burning heretics at the stake. christianity has thrived on its fascism, and what irks me about it most is the false innocence in which it portrays itself. the priests preach lovey-dovey while the conquistadors put all the nonsubmissives to the sword--and then confess their "sins" and, for the price of a few mumbles, are right back in the program in all their soldierly glory. don't kid yourself--this plays out right down to the present.
it's just a f*#ked-up world, klim, i'll grant you that, but jesus hasn't made it any better, and it makes far less sense when you try to view it through the distortions of christian doctrine. your performance on some of your other threads, i think, demonstrates that spectacularly.
|
|
go-B
climber
Revelation 7:12
|
|
"Have you ever watched 60-minuites, or any other News program and seen the Musical savants?"
The thought came to me and is humbling, it seems impossible that in their state they could do what they do with music, God makes no mistakes there is a place for everyone, and he can use us! In life the race is not always won by the fastest, strongest, or smartest, but it depends on God! God wishes that all would come to repentance and that none should perish! My grandfather said to me one time "Don't cut your nose off to spite your face!" and that's bona fide!
|
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
http://mysticbanana.com/is-this-a-possible-past-life.html
And don’t forget Carl Sagan. Carl Sagan – brilliant scientific mind behind the “Cosmos” miniseries and books, part of the science team for the Voyagers spacecraft – and known for his tireless dedication to debunking claims of the paranormal. As a serious scientist, Sagan detested the “baloney” in the so-called supernatural world, and even founded a group specifically to examine and debunk paranormal claims. But after looking into the studies conducted by serious researchers, such as Dr. Ian Stevenson, in the field of reincarnation, Sagan was so impressed that he concluded [emphasis mine] that reincarnation is possible:
“At the time of writing there are three claims in the ESP field which, in my opinion, deserve serious study: … (3) that young children sometimes report the DETAILS OF A PREVIOUS LIFE, which upon checking turn out to be ACCURATE and which they COULD NOT HAVE KNOWN ABOUT IN ANY WAY OTHER THAN REINCARNATION. I pick these claims … as examples of contentions that MIGHT BE TRUE.” – “Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark” by Carl Sagan (pg 300)
i would disagree here on one point, and it probably portrays the limitations of sagan's thinking and that of so many others like him: "could not have been known about in any other way". he's judging something phenomenal by his own experience, a dangerous thing to do on the outer limits. i think gobee is doing the same.
|
|
go-B
climber
Revelation 7:12
|
|
Along the same lines...
A genius explains, Daniel Tammet is an autistic savant
http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2005/feb/12/weekend7.weekend2
"When I multiply numbers together, I see two shapes. The image starts to change and evolve, and a third shape emerges. That's the answer. It's mental imagery. It's like maths without having to think."
"It sounds silly, but numbers are my friends"
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
Hey! I am a drug addict.
Finally, me and Gobee got something in common!
How you doing buddy go bee?
|
|
go-B
climber
Revelation 7:12
|
|
Yep, quit that nasty sh@t for years now, don't ever start is the best advice!
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
paul roehl -- "If there was a God wouldn't it be a little kinder than that."
If God kills you personally it would be the ultimate kindness.
Your view of kindness is based in the mode of passion and ignorance.
Most peoples view of kindness is steeped in those modes of passion and ignorance because they have a very limited or no understanding of why you're here.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!