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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
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WBraun
climber
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There is intelligent design.
God gave you good intelligence.
Unfortunately some people became just plain stupid and lost all their original good intelligence ......
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Grow up already
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jstan
climber
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Even at the age of six I could have told my interlocutor to buzz off for trying to plant in me something infinitely corrupt that rails against justice and fair treatment among people as does the theme christians mouth as writ in the bible, because I knew my parents valued justice and fair treatment.
I knew they would agree with my stand.
I was lucky. So many others are not so lucky and have to put off expressing their revulsion until they are of age.
A cancer.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Paul,
Since I fall WAY short of defending the Word of God I do get wise counsel (Psalm 1:1). Here is the response to your "Romans" post. This was not taken from a website but from a friends email response to me which he took the time to respond:
Dear Brother,
Anytime you are engaging in validating the truth of God and His Word (apologetics), you must recognize that you may well be like a brilliant lawyer delivering a watertight case that leaves no room for reasonable doubt, but the jury is so corrupted and distracted that no amount of evidence will suffice to prompt them to render a fair and truthful verdict. That being said, we are nevertheless instructed to "sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear" (1 Peter 3:15). Notice the emphasis in this verse. FIRST and FOREMOST, apologetics is about honoring God, not convincing the skeptic, though we should have an ordered defense that is persuasive and reasonable. Pray about your motives, brother, before you wade into the forum of this world's willful ignorance, which argues from the perspective of the natural mind. Cater to intellectual integrity, but never pander to intellectual arrogance.
Peter, in his second epistle, warns that the things written by "our beloved brother Paul" are in some cases "hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction" (2 Peter 3:15,16). So it should not be surprising that Paul's epistle to the Romans, which is such a superb example of clearheaded reasoning, may be rejected as foolishness by the natural mind (1 Corinthians 2:14). As for me, the more times a I read Romans 11:32 (why should we stop at only 5 times as your poison-pen pal suggests?), the more sense it makes to me, until I am led to exclaim with Paul "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out!" (Romans 11:33). Let's consider this verse that evokes the vitriol of your friend:
"For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all" (Romans 11:32). Paul gives us a logical and historical account of Israel's past (Romans 9), Israel's present (Romans 10), and Israel's future (Romans 11), showing the marvelous tapestry of God's workmanship in the nation Israel, which He will again exalt as the head of the nations when He completes His work with them. Israel was chosen to be a spectacle to the nations around them, whether by their obedience and blessing or their rebellion and chastisement. In either case God has concluded that "all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). The Law condemns Jew and Gentile alike. If we could keep the Law to the satisfaction of God's holiness, then we would not need faith in God, since "the Law is not of faith: but the man that doeth them shall live in them" (Galatians 3:12). So what is so unreasonable about Romans 11:32 in the light of God's gift of righteousness which comes by faith? God puts us all in the circle of unbelief; then He says that everyone in that circle qualifies in to receive His salvation freely, Jew and Gentile alike. Everyone is equally able (and urged!) to step out of that qualifying circle of unbelief and come into the sphere of saving faith that responds to God's gracious offer of salvation, purchased at heaven's highest expense. Obviously, we're not talking about the circle of mere intellectual unbelief, but the unbelief that has not exercised the God-given prerogative to receive the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior (John 1:12,13). We can intellectually believe that the Lord is knocking on the door of our heart (Revelations 3:20), and still neglect to open it in spite of the enormous body of evidence (Hebrew 2:3,4).
How absurdly the natural mind concludes that "the Christian doctrine unravels around Romans 11:32" as your friend as asserted, obviously ignoring the careful case that Paul built in Romans chapters 1-3, laying the 7-fold foundation of the Gospel's credibility (refer to attached, Why Should You Believe the Bible?, addressing verses 1-4 & 18-20), and then laying out the threefold view of the sinful society (Romans 1:21-32), the self-righteous society (Romans 2:1-16), and finally the Semitic society (Romans 2:17-29), proving finally that
"both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin" (Romans 3:9).
So, brother, we can expect blind unbelief to rant, ignoring the obvious, casting aside the marvelous wisdom of God as foolishness. A fool can deny that there is no such thing as gravity after scaling Yosemite's El Capitán, imagining that he can simply float to the bottom. Neither the sincerity of his faith nor the force of his argument will diminish the effect of the law of gravity. Nor shall it ever change the Law of God that demands righteousness, which can only be obtained by saving faith in Christ, "even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ" (Romans 3:22). How foolishly the unbeliever replies against God! "For what if some did not believe? Shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?" (Romans 3:3).
Never.
(Bro. David Hall- quiettimepoems.blogspot.com)
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Attachment:
1. The Bible declares that Christ changes lives (2 Corinthians 5:17).
This truth is quite evident in the lives of Christians in every time and place. The apostle Paul, who was once an enemy of the cause of Christ, was transformed into a bold “servant of Jesus Christ.” –Romans 1:1
2. The Bible exhibits the promise and fulfillment of hundreds of prophecies with 100% accuracy: Christ’s place of birth, His betrayal, His suffering, His crucifixion, and His resurrection, to name just a few (Micah 5:2, Zech.11:12, Isaiah 53, Psalms 16 and 22). –Romans 1:2
3. The Bible declared that Christ must be a descendant of David, the ancient king and psalmist of Israel. The Lord Jesus met that criterion
(Mat. 1, Luke 3). –Romans 1:3
4. The Lord Jesus promised to rise on the third day after His death. He staked His whole reputation on that claim. His enemies posted guards at the tomb, hoping to prove that His claims were false. But three days later, He rose. The empty tomb could not be explained then, nor can it be today, except by this conclusion: Christ is risen indeed! –Romans 1:4
5. God has historically revealed His judgments from heaven. Whenever he warned of a national or personal chastisement, it came to pass to the letter. The flood in Noah’s day, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Egypt’s plagues, and the calamities upon Israel all testify to the wisdom of taking the warnings of God very seriously! - Romans 1:18
6. God has already placed within each of us a witness of Himself. Those who deny the witness of God still “hold the truth,” even though they suppress it. This inner witness is two-fold. We have all been given a “conscience...bearing witness” of God and of His moral absolutes of right and wrong (Romans 1:19, 2:15).
God also holds us accountable for His witness by the Holy Spirit, who con-tinues to “reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judg- ment” (John 16:8). –Romans 1:19
7. Finally, the obvious design in creation that we observe all around us everyday testifies to the God of the Bible, that “it is He that hath made us, and not we ourselves” (Psalm 100:3). “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord” (Isaiah 1:18). “He that planted the ear, shall He not hear? He that formed the eye, shall He not see?” (Psalm 94:9). This is a logical appeal to the Law of Cause and Effect. The Bible is in perfect agreement with the laws of science, but it opposes the irrational idea that we are all a mere product of chance! -Romans 1:20
“But without faith it is impossible to please God. For he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a Rewarder of them that diligently seek Him” (Hebrews 11:6).
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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i love it when norton gets on a roll like that.
ID, you need to take yourself a little trip to europe. nations under god galore over there, been that way for centuries. more churches per hectare than we got 7-11s. in good old germany, churches are supported by taxes. you get to check on your tax form whether you want it to go to catholic or protestant.
europe loves the way the world is being run these days. they've effectively passed all the sh#t off on the u.s.a. which they carried on for centuries. they devote themselves to enjoying life and taking month-long vacations. what we gotta do is get smart and dump world leadership onto someone else.
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WBraun
climber
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illusiondweller
Instead of constantly just giving sermons and bible verses one should prove how God exists in practical examples using the scientific method that even the layman can understand.
Those that say it can't be done and there is no proof are the same fools & rascals that originally said the earth is flat and you'll fall off the edge.
Otherwise no one will take to it just based on faith and belief alone for they can always change.
It has to be bonafide and there must be absolute proof.
Even the American Indian long before the so called Christian preachers came had a very good understanding of God.
Saying that the United States is the only country under God is poor fund of knowledge.
The whole planet is under God including the atheists, agnostics, etc etc.
God is within every living entity along side with the individual soul.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Tony,
Freedom of religion is supported by the Basic Law adopted by the United nations. Show me a country who's laws were founded under God, the Creator, the Supreme Judge and Divine Providence.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Sincerely praying for you all...see you out on the rocks.
Thank you Lord God
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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werner, making me laugh and cry. the american indian's understanding of god was enhanced a thousand percent by the widespread genocide committed in the name of spreading christian civilization. they learned a real lesson about god, the ones that survived, that is. i'm sure norton can dig up some bible quotes for that. there are plenty. it isn't about "love" unless you join the club. jesus said he came to bring a sword, and it was used liberally in these united states.
Show me a country who's laws were founded under God, the Creator, the Supreme Judge and Divine Providence.
right there, ID, you've pretty much defined every islamic theocracy from the caliphate onward. of course, they prefer the name "allah".
klimmer would make a great catholic, and i think you, ID, would make a terrific muslim. i've known at least three very smart guys, two of them with PhDs, western guys, who converted to islam early in their adult lives and remained there happily ever after. (one of them, admittedly, did it under the influence of a "gorgeous moroccan babe".)
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Yeah, I like having Pate back in fine ass healthy form.
And Cintune? Home Run image post.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Under - In a state of pupilage or subjection; as a youth under a tutor; a ward under a guardian; colonies under the British government.
I also am a man under authority, having soldiers under me. Matt. 8
Declaration of Independence:
1. "powers of the earth...to which...nature's God entitle them."
2. "rights...endowed by the Creator"
3. "We, therefore...appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world..."
4. "with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence"
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Wrong frame of reference. You can't have it both ways, obviously.
Deism in the philosophy of religion is the standpoint that reason and observation of the natural world, without the need for organized religion, can determine that a supreme being created the universe. Further the term often implies that this supreme being does not intervene in human affairs or suspend the natural laws of the universe. Deists typically reject supernatural events such as prophecy and miracles, tending to assert that God (or "The Supreme Architect") has a plan for the universe that is not to be altered by intervention in the affairs of human life. Deists believe in the existence of God without any reliance on revealed religion, religious authority or holy books.... Benjamin Franklin wrote in his autobiography, "Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
(boldface added to highlight the significant difference.)
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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My puppy is UNDER me.
He needs constant supervision and direction from birth to death.
Are you a man or a puppy?
Damn, you are one weak ass primate.
Still struggling with your infant birth original sin?
GROW UP
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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You guys have been busy, I feel left out.
Nice to see more distinction being made between (a) "God" in a higher more abstract "Einsteinian" sense and (b) the God of Moses (aka Jehovah or Allah) who mated with a young human female (a virgin) to produce a baby god.
Nice to see it because this IS the 21st century, not the 11th..
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Here you go:
Heaven is for real. It's number 1 at amazon.com. Shame on all you skeptics!
http://www.amazon.com/Heaven-Real-Little-Astounding-Story/dp/0849946158/ref=pd_ts_b_?ie=UTF8&s=books
Heaven Is for Real is the true story of the four-year old son of a small town Nebraska pastor who during emergency surgery slips from consciousness and enters heaven. He survives and begins talking about being able to look down and see the doctor operating and his dad praying in the waiting room. The family didn't know what to believe but soon the evidence was clear.
Colton said he met his miscarried sister, whom no one had told him about, and his great grandfather who died 30 years before Colton was born, then shared impossible-to-know details about each. He describes the horse that only Jesus could ride, about how "reaaally big" God and his chair are, and how the Holy Spirit "shoots down power" from heaven to help us.
Told by the father, but often in Colton's own words, the disarmingly simple message is heaven is a real place, Jesus really loves children, and be ready, there is a coming last battle.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Told by the father, but often in Colton's own words
But not completely. Do you think the father might have any ulterior motive to tout such a tale? Nah...
Addendum:
Jesus really loves children
So much that he lets them be abducted and abused, born with all sorts of maladies, and die with horrible pain. Such love!!
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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So get this. Part of the first reviewer's review:
"As I mentioned before, I'm a skeptic at heart. A book like this one wouldn't likely catch my attention and certainly wouldn't win any praise from me. So many books like these are fanciful, unbiblical, and simply outright inconsistent with what I know to be true from the Bible. Colton Burpo's story was a refreshing and surprisingly accurate portrait of what awaits each of us whose destiny is Heaven. I read the book with a critical eye, looking for those little details that would prove this story to be at best inaccurate or at worst a fraud. I couldn't find them. His tale seemed honest. His descriptions fit the way a child would describe things, not one whose words had been fed him by an adult. Some of his revelations were simply amazing!"
Yeah, you go, girl!
.....
I recommend this book to Go-B and ID.
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