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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Dec 31, 2010 - 03:52pm PT
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Bible Prophecy and Probability
The record of Bible prophecy and the corresponding historical fulfillment (figures are conservative).
By: Brother David Hall, San Diego, CA
PROPHECY/ PROBABILITY
1. His birth in Bethlehem from the tribe of Judah. - Michah 5:2/Matt 2:1
/1:2400
2. He would be preceded by a messenger. - Isaiah 40:3/Matt 3:1-2
/1:20
3. He would enter Jerusalem on a colt. - Zech 9:9/Luke 19:35
/1:50
4. He would be betrayed by a friend. - Psalm 41:9/Matt 26:47-48
/1:10
5. His hands and feet would be pierced. - Psalm 22:16/Luke 23:33
/1:100
6. He would be scourged by His enemies. - Isaiah 53:5/Matt 27:26
/1:10
7. His betrayal for 30 pieces of silver. - Zech 11:12/Matt 26:15
/1:50
8. He will be spit upon and beaten. - Isaiah 5:6/Matt 26:27
/1:10
9. His betrayal money would be thrown into the temple. Zech11:13/Mat 27:5-7
/1:200
10. He would be silent before His accusers. - Isaiah 53:7/Mat 27:12-14
/1:100
11. He would be crucified with thieves. - Isaiah 53:12/Mat 27:38
/1:100
12. People would gamble for His garments. - Psalm 22:18/John 19:23-24
/1:100
13. His side would be pierced. - Zech 12:10/John 19:34
/1:100
14. None of His bones would be broken. - Psalm 34:20/John 19:34
/1:20
15. His body would not decay. - Psalm 16:10/Acts 2:31
/1:10000
16. His burial in a rich an's tomb. Isaiah 53:9/Mat 27:57-60
/1:100
17. The darkness covering the earth at midday. - Amos 8:9/Mat 27:45
/1:1000
Total odds against the above prophesied events occuring by chance are:
4.8E+33
Man is good...but not that good!
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jstan
climber
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Dec 31, 2010 - 04:02pm PT
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I think we are seeing people suffering from a psychological difficulty. A tendency to intemperance. A person subject to some dreadful behavior, something way at the end of the pendulum swing, then takes up some "belief" that says all truth can be found in one place and can be applied everywhere. A concept absurd on its face. This too is about as far as a pendulum can swing.
Mind you I have known many very good people who believe as they choose, associate with other good people and together try to help fellow creatures. Altogether esteemable lives, without at any time telling anyone else that they have found the "answer" that others must accept if they are not to suffer the fate of the "unsaved." For such is an attempt at coersion. Force. The sword.
We are dealing with a malady. A malady that has long been with us. Intemperance, the inability to properly weight life's priorities is found among murderers, molesters, and even capitalists. Should we be surprised it may also appear behind faces bearing beautific smiles?
The malady lives in the person, not in the mode of life chosen.
People, not beliefs, are the source of all good, and the source of all evil.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Dec 31, 2010 - 04:03pm PT
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Okay, let's deal with the evidence Tony. Put what we believe to the side for now. Refute the evidence.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Dec 31, 2010 - 04:11pm PT
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you have to consider, ID, that stuff written later merely picked up on stuff written beforehand. that's literary tradition, not prophecy. sorta like saying "a rose by any other name". shakespeare said it first. is it divine inspiration if someone says it again on supertopo? not really, just a reflection of a commonly held tradition.
i've talked previously on this thread about putting scripture in perspective. christianity threw out gobs of its own inconvenient scripture when it attempted to stamp out the gnostic gospels. this resulted in a religion which could be forced on the public in the style of the roman empire's domineering ways, an unkinder, ungentler religion, at war with itself and universally intolerant of anything else. sound familiar?
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Dec 31, 2010 - 05:30pm PT
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"I think we are seeing people suffering from a psychological difficulty."
Perfect jstan! I have no problem with that statement for it is in direct agreement with God's Word, it is the truth. You see, from the beginning in the garden, Eve encountered "psychological difficulty". She was tempted and made a decision, a thought process, she had to use her "imagination." And from the beginning God reminds us what caused our demise...
"And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." - Genesis 6:5
"for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth;" - Genesis 8:21b
"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened." - Romans 1:21
...and what the treatment is for our condition:
"Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;" - 2 Corinthians 10:5
"In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." - 2 Corinthians 4:4
"That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all." - Ephesians 1:17-23
And finally...
"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:31-32
Thank God for you, jstan.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Dec 31, 2010 - 11:42pm PT
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How to Deprogram an Ex-Cult Member
Being indoctrinated into a cult does not happen overnight, nor is it a simple psychological maneuver to completely take over someone's will and belief system. So it should be no surprise that deprogramming an ex-cult member is a difficult and painstaking process. You will need much patience and must realize it will be emotionally and psychologically wrenching for both you and the person you are attempting to retrain.
Difficulty: Challenging
Instructions
1
Prepare yourself for the ordeal you are about to go through. Find reliable information about the cult you are dealing with so you know what to expect. It is very helpful to find an ex-cult member who understands what the cult member is going through and can guide you through the minefield of extricating him or her from the cult.
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Control your emotional responses when talking to the cult member, especially anger. Try to interact with them as often as possible, preferably face to face, but also in letters and phone calls. Let them know you love them and they have a place to go if they want to leave. Never be condescending or insulting when talking to them about their beliefs or the leader while they are still inside.
3
Find a deprogrammer to help you get the cult member out. Once this is accomplished, you must keep the person in a safe, but isolated, place and allow the deprogrammer to retrain the cult member in his beliefs. It is important for cult leaders to be discredited by pointing out the contradictions in their ideology versus their actions and to provide proof of these contradictions if possible.
4
Appeal to the emotions of the victim. They have been taught techniques to block outside influence. Make sure you do not use any catchwords or phrases which will trigger a relapse into cult thinking. Keep switching subjects to keep them off balance so they have to think. This is difficult and painful for them but with persistence they will begin to think on their own again.
5
Provide a stable environment for the ex-cult member to live in. Make sure he goes to a therapist regularly and goes out to develop interests of his own. Safeguard him against cult members who may try to draw him back into the cult, and if possible, find an ex-cult member to spend time with the victim, reassuring him that things will be okay.
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go-B
climber
Revelation 7:12
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Dec 31, 2010 - 11:48pm PT
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Psalms 19:1, The heavens declare the glory of God,
and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.
2 Day to day pours out speech,
and night to night reveals knowledge.
3 There is no speech, nor are there words,
whose voice is not heard.
4 Their voice goes out through all the earth,
and their words to the end of the world.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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Dec 31, 2010 - 11:51pm PT
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Perspective, as always, is everything.
Think about that. THEN act accordingly. Kindly, even?
I'm trying. Living what you believe is your best example.
Cheers!
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Dr. F, et al,
"Blessed are ye when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and say all manner of evil agaist you, falsely, for my sake." - Matthew 5:11
Remember, "falsely" is anyting contrary to the Truth, or the Word of God, "I am the way, the truth, and the life..." I just wanted to make sure that you all do realize that you're blessing me and gobee and other believers and glorifying God or "making Him look good," with you're hurtful responses. If you insist, we'll take everything you throw at us and give glory back to God!
Are you guys getting this...?
"In whom the god of this world (the little "g" god called satan) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." - 2 Corinthians 4:4
We're not posting these verses up in order to create hurt to you all but it's obvious that that is what you're intentions are. They are God's Word not ours! Do you see that you're responses are already forseen and anticipated? We've accepted the Word of God and now it not only promises and protects us but benefits us when those who "believe not" choose to persecute us for our beliefs. If I may speak for them, this answers the topic question, "Why do so many people believe in God..." Thank you Lord!
What a God!
Edit: Gobee, God is good!
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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If you read Roman and Greek lit. you'll find more evidence for the existence of Apollo than there ever was for Yashua or Jesus.
Josephus who mentions Jesus also believed Emperor Vespasian was the savior!!
Every believing Christian should read Romans 11:32 five times and reflect on it as Augustine did.
It is Augustine's oxymoron "O felix culpa". Oh happy fault or my joy is my sin that I may be redeemed.
Ask yourself, how is it that the predicate of my Christian joy is my inherent sinfulness?
Why would God create a universe in which evil is the necessary foundation of goodness?
Solipsistic nonsense! Christian doctrine unravels around Romans 11:32.
That is: Why would a God condemn us {anyone} to eternal damnation only to be able to redeem us?
The argument here isn't one of reason against faith. Christian doctrine is so un-reasonable as to defeat the possibility of faith.
Faith cannot exist in the face of what is finally unreasonable.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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God saves as a function of his condemnation, since without condemnation one cannot be saved.
Such an idea is a spiral into nonsense.
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WBraun
climber
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paul roehl
Everything you write in this thread is pure bullsh'it mental speculations.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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WBraun
climber
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Yeah wow!!!
I know you're gettin a little bored in that other thread .....
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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"I'm staying right here in the good old USA where I know I am under God... ready for whatever he wishes to drop on me."
Glory to God for another believer!
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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"Illusiondweller" - how apt.
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jstan
climber
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"God saves as a function of his condemnation, since without condemnation one cannot be saved.
Such an idea is a spiral into nonsense."
Climbers have their sharp corners so this is a biased group. But when I imagine I as a six year old being told that because someone named Eve ate an apple, I would have to remove a horrible guilt through out my whole life.
In the HOPE someone would decide I was not to burn in Hell for eternity.
None of this having anything to do with me at all.
I mean.........
I mean.....really..........
I did not even hear the word f*#k until I was maybe 19?
If I had known it at the age of six I would have used it, right to someone's face.
Then and there.
I have not changed.
When I went home I would merely have asked my parent's do you want people to be held accountable for things over which they have no control?
They would have said, "No, of course not."
That would have been the end of the discussion.
So now we know what is happening here.
A cancer.
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go-B
climber
Revelation 7:12
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jstan,
I only have to answer to God for my own sins!
But I'm glad that God will see Jesus's sacrifice, and not my sin's!
That is what Jesus offers all who believe in Him!
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