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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Dec 16, 2010 - 01:41pm PT
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Yes. To both rrrAdam and jstan posts.
But fellas, I pose a way harder crux. C'mon, take a stab at it.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Dec 16, 2010 - 01:52pm PT
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Fructose, if the crux you refer to is Santa for two weeks being similar to believing in a god or religion for one year, then a response would be that Santa is not really believed but a simple social occasion for most everyone and god or religion is an a serious commitment to a innate human desire to believe that individual continues to exist after death.
Big difference, no?
Love,
Norton
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jstan
climber
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Dec 16, 2010 - 02:03pm PT
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I just went to the Santa analog to this thread and saw the post:
"Santa is our only hope of defeating Bin laden."
Thereby was exposed a perfect( I think) example of a whole body being tarred by the actions of a few.
Mohammed Mosaddeq's democratically established administration was overthrown forcibly in Iran through the activities of British Petroleum and the CIA. Subsequently Iranian natural resources were exploited for the benefit of persons who were not citizens of Iran.
Let me ask a question. Would you be upset if intrigues sponsored by China had overthrown one of our presidents along with our Congress and had resulted in strip mining throughout our west with the proceeds going to Chinese businessmen?
And in the absence of protests by the Chinese people generally would you not hold those people generally accountable?
Governments proceeding under cover of security and citizenry who do not insist upon fairness do great and lasting damage.
This damage surfaces as hate. Hate that can last 1000 years.
I know I am setting a high bar for Christian organizations opposing abortion. But let me ask.
How would Jesus have counseled us?
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Dec 16, 2010 - 02:24pm PT
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Santa is an educational tool. That one big white dude in the sky is all a made-up story designed to get children to behave better is a good thing to learn, imo.
DMT I see what you did there, D... Very slick!
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Dec 16, 2010 - 02:27pm PT
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Very slick.
So comment, rrrAdam. Does it have a place. In our society. To a point.
It IS a more complex issue, conundrum, consideration. Than arguing with the Go-Bs.
Later...
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Dec 16, 2010 - 04:10pm PT
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Norton, I was just interested in exploring the subject from the perspective of the narrative: given the diversity of our species, demographics, personalities, sometimes the pursuit of life strategies for living (by way of a comforting narrative, e.g., and its customs, rituals) outweighs the pursuit of truth. As your post alluding to your mother (and mine) indicated, it adds extra dimensions (to consider, to contemplate) to the overall themes of this thread.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Dec 16, 2010 - 04:22pm PT
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Good point Fructose,
My only real point was to ask Dr. F to back off a little on his stridency
as regards essentially branding all religious people as "delusional".
They are not.
And their very real human need to believe in an afterlife should be respected
with the same intensity as atheists, like me, choose not to believe.
Such stridency only alienates and angers.
And pisses people off.
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MH2
climber
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Dec 16, 2010 - 04:27pm PT
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There is a Santa analog to this thread?!
That is difficult to believe.
Thanks to DMT for reminding me that sarcasm is better left to Mark Twain. And also for exposing the word/idea problem. Part of our inability to agree on certain things comes from our having different ideas about what certain words mean. As a less controversial example, "most" means anything above 50 per cent. Then we have "sarcasm". Is it good humor or bad humor? How does it differ from kidding, irony, parody, etc., etc.? I get the feeling that 2 people seeing the same event and then trying to describe it can use the same word with very different ideas about how that word will be received by other people. Winston Churchill, if I recall my Reader's Digest correctly, liked to construct progressions of the sort:
"I am thin."
"You are skinny."
"He is gaunt."
All describing the same condition but with differing spin.
So, because jstan is pretty smart, I'd like to point out that he once posted something like what follows to a thread somewhat like this one (if I remember correctly).
from the pages of medical transcription:
The patient has no previous history of suicides.
The patient has been depressed since she began seeing me in 1993.
She is numb from her toes down.
Rectal examination revealed a normal size thyroid.
Examination of genitalia reveals that he is circus sized.
Skin: somewhat pale but present.
The pelvic exam will be done later on the floor.
When she fainted her eyes rolled around the room.
Between you and me we ought to be able to get this lady pregnant.
Patient has two teenage children but no other abnormalities.
The patient was to have a bowel resection. However, he took a job as a stock broker instead.
At least if there is a God you have to admit he has a sense of humor. But what kind of humor?
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jstan
climber
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Dec 16, 2010 - 04:38pm PT
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"So, because jstan is pretty smart, I'd like to point out that he once posted something like what follows to a thread somewhat like this one (if I remember correctly)."
I would like to contest one of these two claims made by MH2.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Dec 16, 2010 - 04:53pm PT
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same qualifiers...different arguments
dmt argues that religion is unthinking; i argue it is not
dmt, by his argument, claims his belief is mindless; i do not make any such claim about myself and previously would not have made any such assumption about dmt
last time i recall somebody killing an abortion doctor in the name of christ, i also recall immediate, loud, and repeated condemnation from many denominations...as well as prayers for the doctor's soul
every time i recall somebody killing innocent people in the name of allah, i also recall hearing nothing from any muslim leaders...but i do recall hearing members of the media cautioning us not to assume the killing was religiously motivated (that is, when and if they every get around to mentioning the killers religion) and fretting about an anti-muslim backlash that has never occured in america
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MH2
climber
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Dec 16, 2010 - 11:35pm PT
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Okay.
Jstan is extremely smart.
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jstan
climber
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Dec 16, 2010 - 11:45pm PT
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Book:
I am glad to hear there was condemnation within the community. I did not see any evidence of this so that is all I had to go on.
But what has actually been done by the community? Did they change something they were doing? Perhaps changing their suggestions as to the sermons on abortion that were being issued?
Some actual act? Some changed policy?
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go-B
climber
Revelation 7:12
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Dec 17, 2010 - 08:13am PT
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Come along...
...for the JOY ride!
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Dec 17, 2010 - 12:05pm PT
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"Did they change something they were doing? Perhaps changing their suggestions as to the sermons on abortion that were being issued?"
huh? do you have proof of sermons that demand/encourage/or even suggest a christian duty to murder abortion doctors?
just go to youtube and search 'jihad'
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jstan
climber
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Dec 17, 2010 - 12:17pm PT
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"huh? do you have proof of sermons that demand/encourage/or even suggest a christian duty to murder abortion doctors? "
Book:
You have jumped to an extreme position that no one has advocated.
Religion along with all the rest of us attempt to promote things that are good and to advise against things that are not good. What I am saying is that sermons advising against abortion also need to advise the faithful that those not present in the room have rights also. And that rights need to be respected.
Just as you feel you have rights so must you respect the rights possessed by those with whom you may disagree.
Because a person's rights were terribly violated supposedly in a cause promoted by an organization, it is reasonable to expect that organization to review its policies and positions to make sure the organization is in no way at fault. Doing this is a concrete action.
Would you not agree?
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MH2
climber
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Dec 17, 2010 - 02:34pm PT
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"at least in Ft. Worth, TX"
The whole world sought audience with [Fort Worth] to hear the wisdom God had put in [its] heart."
from the Book of Wisdom
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Dec 17, 2010 - 07:46pm PT
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re: anthropomorphizing
Food for thought:
These bits of iron are "attracted to" the magnet.
(a) Is this anthropomorphizing? (b) Is it improper to use the verb "attracted" (say, for instance, in lieu of "pulled") to describe the action or process?
Just a small hors d'œuvre to leave you with before the dinner hour.
cf: (a) want (b) select (c) choose
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go-B
climber
Revelation 7:12
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Dec 18, 2010 - 08:19am PT
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...all on ST, my friends and buds!
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