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WBraun
climber
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Nov 18, 2015 - 09:06am PT
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Yeah .... me not stopping at the stop sign on Sundays is an enormous mistake too :-)
OK I'll roll thru only on Mondays ....
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 18, 2015 - 09:09am PT
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For various reasons--and I'm not a Muslim so I can only begin to guess why--Sunnis and Shias, to name two groups--view the stop sign very differently.
They also roll their eyes in opposite directions.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Nov 18, 2015 - 09:09am PT
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Soccer fans are certainly a population I would most expect to behave in a respectful, orderly manned
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 18, 2015 - 09:12am PT
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Heh for bravecowboy!
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Nov 18, 2015 - 09:21am PT
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Reza is amazing.
HDDJ, that is an amazing clip, well worth the 9+ minutes of my time.
TFPU...
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Sparky
Trad climber
vagabond movin on
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Nov 18, 2015 - 09:31am PT
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Great post TGT. There is an excellent book on how soccer can give current political insight.
How Soccer Explains the World: An Unlikely Theory of Globalization by Franklin Foer.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 18, 2015 - 09:35am PT
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Wow k-man, priceless indeed.
I don't even know where to begin with that one.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Nov 18, 2015 - 09:46am PT
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The Reza Aslan video makes some great points.
The different factions of Islam mixed with dozens of different cultures create a complexity that seems lost on the popular culture of the West.
OTOH, even though Jihadist's make up a very small percentage of the world's Muslim population, there seems to be a lot of sentiment for their cause...demonstrated at the soccer match for one.
Weren't there thousands in the streets across the Muslim world, cheering after 9/11?
Still, it's important that we don't paint all Muslims the same just because of the hatred of a few.
So sad is the plight of the vast majority of Muslims, in those war zones, who are good and decent.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2015 - 10:26am PT
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Noted cowards, France.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/11/18/france-says-it-will-take-30000-syrian-refugees-while-u-s-republicans-would-turn-them-away/
France says it will take 30,000 Syrian refugees, while U.S. Republicans would turn them away
In a move that puts the heated U.S. debate over taking in Syrian refugees in perspective, French President Francois Hollande declared on Wednesday that his country would accept 30,000 Syrian refugees over next two years. He announced this at a gathering of mayors from French cities, where he received a standing ovation.
Hollande said that "30,000 refugees will be welcomed over the next two years. Our country has the duty to respect this commitment." He indicated that resettled refugees would undergo rigorous security checks, according to ABC News. He said there would be a 50 million euro investment fund used to support housing for refugees.
Hollande observed that "some people say the tragic events of the last few days have sown doubts in their minds," referring to the cloud of suspicion that has fallen on the hundreds of thousands of Syrian refugees who arrived at Europe's borders this year. Despite speculation, not one of the Paris attackers has so far been identified as a Syrian national.
[Were Syrian refugees involved in the Paris attacks? What we know and don't know]
Hollande said it was France's "humanitarian duty" to honor its commitments to refugees, even in the wake of the chilling terror attacks on Friday, claimed by the Islamic State, which killed at least 129 people.
"We have to reinforce our borders while remaining true to our values," the French president said.
A comparable size American refugee acceptance load based on population would be about 150,000.
A comparable size American refugee acceptance load based on GDP would be about 180,000.
A comparable size American refugee acceptance load based on the amount of sh#t talking Americans do about what pussies the French are would be about all the refugees. Literally all of them.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2015 - 10:47am PT
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It would probably make him a really bold climber.
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Norton
Social climber
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Nov 18, 2015 - 10:55am PT
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It is like how the family tolerates the odd cousin during the holidays..
be polite and understand that although he needs treatment he won't be getting any
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Nov 18, 2015 - 10:58am PT
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"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful." - Seneca
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Nov 18, 2015 - 11:00am PT
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Is it possible that secular authoritarian governments killed more people in the 20th century than religion did in the previous 10 centuries?
Not sure I see us evolving out of this in my lifetime.
That thought has been going through my mind, too, Larry, over the past several years. The demonizing of opponents continues unabated even in the "enlightened" west. According to the Democrats' presidential candidates, the enemy is the Republican party. To listen to Rush Limbaugh, et al., the enemy is all the RINO's, Democrats, "Feminazis," "Enviros," et al. Modern American politics has been an exercise in division and deomonization. While the latter is nothing new (see, e.g., the election of 1800), the overt division and implicit exclusion strikes me as a distinctly new and ominous development.
Then we get to college campuses, where the enemy is anyone who would dare present a contrary view. With the proliferation of transparently and proudly biased information sources, we can now just hear those with whom we agree, rather than bother listening to contrary views. After all, those in power find free speech a nuisance at best.
For all the griping I read on ST about our political and other OT threads, they serve at least one good purpose: we can post opposing views. While some will ignore views of those they know to oppose their viewpoints, sometime we actually have a dialog. If more people understood that ad hominem attacks weaken their position, we could even have a better dialog, but we have one nonetheless. Fighting by promulgating ideas sure beats the physical violence that seems to be overcoming more of us.
John
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2015 - 11:09am PT
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John posted the overt division and implicit exclusion strikes me as a distinctly new and ominous development.
We literally fought a civil war in which Americans killed, raped and then burned each other's towns to the ground. In the 1960's governors turned police dogs, fire hoses and the national guard on American citizens protesting for equal right or against a war. I'd say that things have been worse than this. The ways that it's presenting itself are somewhat new, but I'm not sure the rhetoric actually is. We are also far more present to the oppression of others than we used to be.
Then we get to college campuses, where the enemy is anyone who would dare present a contrary view. With the proliferation of transparently and proudly biased information sources, we can now just hear those with whom we agree, rather than bother listening to contrary views. After all, those in power find free speech a nuisance at best.
This is largely anecdotal and when it does happen it's covered to death by the media. I'm always very skeptical of these kinds of "conventional wisdom" stories.
For all the griping I read on ST about our political and other OT threads, they serve at least one good purpose: we can post opposing views. While some will ignore views of those they know to oppose their viewpoints, sometime we actually have a dialog. If more people understood that ad hominem attacks weaken their position, we could even have a better dialog, but we have one nonetheless.
Big ups here. I try to point that out when I can. In the early days of ST we had our share of ad hominem, but I remember quite substantial and robust debates about the war in Iraq and the 2004 election. If we could even pull it back to those days, I'd be thrilled.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Nov 18, 2015 - 11:22am PT
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Good points about division, HDDJ. I stand corrected. You could add that the formation of the United States was an exercise in hateful division. Huge numbers of loyalists were deomonized and essentially kicked out of their country, and their only offense was trying to remain loyal subjects of His Majesty.
I wish I could say the same about college campuses. My ties to academia doubtless skew my perspective. For 12 years, I was a trustee of a small, liberal arts oriented, Christian university. For 20, I was on the faculty of a law school. I also taught economics at the community college level for several years, and I am an alumnus of The Univesrity of California (i.e. Berkeley), where the Free Speech Movement was born, and of a very conservative economics department and a very liberal law school, both at UCLA. In addition, my daughters have relatively recent U.C. Davis degrees, as well as subsequent degrees from Fresno State and Illinois State.
The press's reporing on the indoctrination and intolerance of diverse viewpoints is aboslutely consistent with what I've observed. I think, though, it may merely reflect the ages-old desire of children to differ from their parents. My generation rebelled against the in loco parentis aspects of college. We wanted freedom to live as we chose. Just this week, in contrast, a group of SF State students protested the possibility of the campus entering into a contract to provide Coke, Pepsi or 7-up on campus. We would have objected if the University forced us to take only one. The SF State protest was over the presence of any of those drinks on campus because they were "bad for you."
As I joke with our daughters, when they have children, they'll get along great with their grandparents, because they'll share a common enemy.
John
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2015 - 11:32am PT
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John posted Just this week, in contrast, a group of SF State students protested the possibility of the campus entering into a contract to provide Coke, Pepsi or 7-up on campus.
This has been criticized and protested since it started happening, what, 20 years ago? People were complaining about hyper-PC culture then too. Before that they were insisting that colleges divest from South Africa. Is not the history of our country discovering the perceived moral failings of those before us and trying to correct them?
If you watch the Daily Show from 10 years ago, it is rife with gay jokes that would be completely unacceptable now (and largely just not that funny). The culture has shifted. There have always been stories of things going way too far and there is more media now to magnify the best and the worst of them.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nov 18, 2015 - 03:31pm PT
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Hildebeest hates free speech.
http://www.laughfactory.com/channels/new-releases/1977
In what appears to be a first for a serious presidential contender, Hillary Clinton’s campaign is going after five comedians who made fun of the former Secretary of State in standup skits at a popular Hollywood comedy club.
A video of the short performance, which is less than three minutes, is posted on the website of the renowned club, Laugh Factory, and the Clinton campaign has tried to censor it. Besides demanding that the video be taken down, the Clinton campaign has demanded the personal contact information of the performers that appear in the recording. This is no laughing matter for club owner Jamie Masada, a comedy guru who opened Laugh Factory more than three decades ago and has been instrumental in launching the careers of many famous comics. “They threatened me,” Masada told Judicial Watch. “I have received complains before but never a call like this, threatening to put me out of business if I don’t cut the video.”
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2015/11/clinton-goes-after-laugh-factory-comedians-for-making-fun-of-her/
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 18, 2015 - 03:43pm PT
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More manufactured bullshit from the folks famous for manufacturing bullsh#t.
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