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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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If they had footage they would show it. Even the gas stations. You would at least think the 911 commission would have had priveledge.
You notice that the security camera footages from the gas stations and such haven't been released. There could be a number of reasons for this. One reason people suspect is that they show something other than a plane.
a second possibility is that they show a plane or show nothing. This focus on there not being a plan hitting the pentagon (and the controlled demolition of the towers) serves a wonderful function for the government that, as a minimum, allowed 9-11 to happen. It makes the "conspiracy" theory people look far out and fringe, and points everyone away from following the money, people and events like the war games and false blips on the radar screens from the war games. Nobody is talking much about the real damning stuff
Personally I don't know if the towers were brought down with explosives or not. I personally listened a guy who was an architect involved in designing the towers, (he said in collaborations with some japanese) He claimed they put in a demolition capability into the plans as it would be easier and cheaper that way and New York real Estate in that area where the option to tear down and rebuild was optimal.
I don't know what to think about that but note, since people don't think about it, that there was a previous bomb attack on the world trade center that people forget about since it's damage was so limited. Could have been an incentive, if the government was going to let the attack happen, (see project for a new american century's admitted need for such an attack and those guys were our government) that it be successful (and including the need to destroy evidence housed in the area regarding corrupt wall street firm investigations and the missing 2.3 trillion in the defense department
Peace
karl
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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You would at least think the 911 commission would have had priveledge.
Is a "priveledge" like a regular ledge but with a privi at one end?
How does that work?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Now I understand that you thought that the witness was credible because you liked what he said.
Not true. I believe what he said because I thought he was being truthful about what he saw. And, in case you want to do some research, you'll find that others saw the same thing.
But true to the tee, I have shown that you will ignore those whose statements you do not want to believe, as predicted.
Raymond, have you watched Tony's video yet? Policemen, to me, make very credible witnesses. Especially when they bet their life on their written and spoken testimony. I know it's long, but because you seem interested in trying to debunk the Truth movement, the video might prove to be challenging to you. I'm interested to see how you might try to debunk, or ignore, the taped witnesses.
One thing is for sure: After watching the video, you'd be a fool to believe that the taxi was actually hit by Light Pole #1!
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Look closely K-Man, outside video is there as well.
Nice observational skillz you have.
Now tell me why a gas station camera would point to the sky?
LOL, K-Man deletes his post.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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K-Man deletes his post.
You're right, I did some research and found that the Citigo video was released--and I had not heard that. So I deleted my post questioning the veracity of the video.
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raymond phule
climber
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Not true. I believe what he said because I thought he was being truthful about what he saw.
And my impression after reading two pages about him are that he seems to be mentally that have made up the whole story after he saw loose change. Seriosly, he was passing by, had nothing to do with pentagon but got the important job of finding the evidence such that it could be destroyed
But true to the tee, I have shown that you will ignore those whose statements you do not want to believe, as predicted.
This is exactly the same as you and other people ignore opeds written by for example Tim Ball when the chief posts them. You should at least try to show an eyewitness with at least some credibility if you want to play that card.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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This is exactly the same as you and other people ignore opeds written by for example Tim Ball when the chief posts them.
Ah, an excuse for having a preset opinion. Perfect.
After many posts showing the science behind AWG, and after every denier claim debunked, we're not just choosing to ignore OpEds, we have merit for choosing to ignore how a minority of scientists skew data to show that AWG does not exist. And The Chief, what a fine example you choose!
Like I said, there are others who saw something other than a 575 hit the Pentagon. You choose to ignore all of their testimony. Instead, you are happy to believe the tale that perfect strangers tell you. And it just so happens to be the one you want to hear.
Question: Do you know when you started believing that 9/11 was caused by terrorists from Al-Queda? Think back, what stranger planted that seed in your mind?
Cheers,
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raymond phule
climber
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After many posts showing the science behind AWG, and after every denier claim debunked, we're not just choosing to ignore OpEds, we have merit for choosing to ignore how a minority of scientists skew data to show that AWG does not exist. And The Chief, what a fine example you choose!
It seems like you missed my point. My point was that there are good and bad skeptic arguments about AGW and there are good and bad arguments and information about 911 conspiracies. I am just not able to take your witness seriously after reading those two pages and I really cant understand how someone can. It is like one of the chiefs copy and paste post. For you to claim that you have proved that I am closed minded about the truth because I do not believe that witness is like the chief would claim that scientist is closed minded about the truth after one of his copy and paste post.
Like I said, there are others who saw something other than a 575 hit the Pentagon. You choose to ignore all of their testimony.
No, I am just not going to search for them.
Instead, you are happy to believe the tale that perfect strangers tell you. And it just so happens to be the one you want to hear.
and that is exactly what you do.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Well, actually I look at and listen to all the information I can. I try to have an open mind to all witnesses and observers, as well as those that look into the details of what happened.
Many, many people have questions that go unanswered. And not just insignificant questions--questions of real merit. When people with these questions get stonewalled, my curiosity goes up.
For example, I see now that in 2006 they finally released a couple of videos, ones that show nothing. However, the many FOI requests asking for the videos that would show something go unanswered.
Why?
Karl points out that there could be many levels of disinformation circulating, and we don't know who is circulating what.
Here's something that just came into focus for me, the taxi cab at the Pentagon that was hit by one of the light posts knocked over by the "plane that hit the Pentagon".
I never really paid much attention, but if you believe that that this car was struck by a 400+ lb. light pole, after it was dislodged by a jet liner, then I see why you'd buy the 9/11 Commission Report:
Can you believe it, not a scratch in the hood (that's the reflection of the windshield you see in the polished hood). Lloyd even said that he drove a ways with the light pole sticking out of his windshield. Pretty hard to believe, no?
But there you go, if you believe the Official Story, then you must believe this too.
Cheers,
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2012 - 03:49pm PT
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A minor but important aside here.
My apologies to The Chief and all here at ST for using a nickname my friends have been using for me for may years as my ST handle after The Chief was here first. It's generated confusion and made The Chief a target for complaints about my views or behaviour and given me credit I might not deserve for The Chief's contributions. It doesn't appear we can change our ST names once they're up or I'd happily just use my real name which by the way, is Perry.
At the risk of overstating the obvious, the original post here was not about 9/11 or the conspiracy theories surrounding the event but rather, our tolerance for and the nature of our reactions to statements we don't agree with, whether we choose to pose questions, offer opinions or pass judgements and ultimately, the way we talk to and about each other.
My original observation was a tongue in cheek effort at humour, and in retrospect, perhaps unnecessarily facetious. I will make all possible effort to be impeccable with my word and fess up when busted for failing.
Peace,
PB
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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And let's just say, there was some huge conspiracy plan and the "other" magical flying thing that hit the Pentagon really was a missle or something, and that the actual entire jet airliner and it's passengers were quietly killed and disposed of elsewhere..... somehow... like... errrrmmm.. magic...
Does it make sense to anyone that "they"(the nefarious gov't evil-doers) would do this on bright and clear sunny work morning where everyone and their mothers would clearly see these objects in the crystal-clear air?
If the jet airplane "missed" the Pentagon, did it turn invisible right as it neared the building? It must have if nobody else saw a jumbo jet flying just above the ground over DC at 300mph+ after skimming the Pentagon... Maybe it really landed in area 51?
Comon guys.. I've got a tinfoil hat too but this stuff just seems so insane. Maybe I need more foil.
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raymond phule
climber
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Well, actually I look at and listen to all the information I can. I try to have an open mind to all witnesses and observers, as well as those that look into the details of what happened.
It doesn't look that to me. Have you read what your witness says and do you really believe that it make any sense? Do you really not see that the damage on the building seems to be consistent with an airplane crash?
I never really paid much attention, but if you believe that that this car was struck by a 400+ lb. light pole, after it was dislodged by a jet liner, then I see why you'd buy the 9/11 Commission Report:
What I really do not understand is why they should do such a botch job that includes an ordinary taxi driver when they supposedly rigged lamp posts. I neither know how the damage after a hit by 400+ lb lamp post is supposed to look like.
I actually looked at parts of the movie that Tony posted and the eyewitness reports seems strange but I neither cant understand why they should plan to destroy lamp posts and other things at a different trajectory than they flown the airplane that overflow pentagon. Wouldn't it be much more convincing if the airplane flow over the lamp posts that where destroyed?
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Cool plan by the conspirators.
Lets pretend a lightpole goes into a windshield, and we'll plant a few witneses.
Why do we need to do that and risk getting caught? Why not just scatter lightpoles across the freeway?
Cuz it's fun to watch the conspiracy boyz look for 'anomolies' in a chaotic event.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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... the original post here was not about 9/11 or the conspiracy theories surrounding the event but rather, our tolerance for and the nature of our reactions to statements we don't agree with.
...
My original observation was a tongue in cheek effort at humour,
Perry, I'm sorry your thread got abducted! You make us all look fools, we should all be laughing.
Also, sorry your avatar is so closely named to another's, especially when the other avatar is know for posting belligerent and hostile views.
We should take the 9/11 discuss back to one of the several already-exiting threads, and return your thread to its original purpose (edit: or not!)--our inability to tolerate others with opposing views.
Cheers,
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Sep 11, 2013 - 02:29am PT
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Jus thinking about all those who had their lives so needlessly taken away by mans ego.
RIP
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Sep 11, 2013 - 10:30am PT
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Jus thinking about all those who had their lives so needlessly taken away by mans ego.
RIP
Yes... we all lost that day.
RIP
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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Sep 11, 2013 - 10:37am PT
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Except for Bush, his ego got waaaay bigger.
and then turned around and started a war based on BS... and more lives were lost, them and us.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Sep 11, 2013 - 10:41am PT
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RIP so many people. Crappy way to go for a lot of em.
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