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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Nov 29, 2010 - 01:03pm PT
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TWP... The reasons it matter are:
-9/11
-Blue Laws
-Anti Evolution & Big Bang (see Texas school board)
-Dispensationalists influencing wars in the Middle East, and US policy regarding Israel
-Murdering of abortion doctors
-Denying civil rights to minorities (Gays)
And that's just a bit of what's current... You do know history, right? It mattered further back in the past too, and hundreds of millions of people were killed because of it.
It needs to matter less, BUT, many of the faithful organize and lobby to push their agenda of everybody, and they are succeeding in some areas of the US, to the detriment of our collective best interest.
As a friend of mine says, "Religion should be like masturbation... Somehting you love to do in private, but don't do publically."
Thing is... Many of the faithful believe they have to wank off on us publically, because the Bible commands them to do so... To "witness", and "spread the word".
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 29, 2010 - 01:19pm PT
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"Many of the faithful believe they have to wank off on us publicly ..."
Isn't that what you and HFCS are doing too, constantly here, especially HFCS who's trying so hard to start his "alternative religion"
You're just the other side of the coin and preaching your "brand" of "religion".
I know you guys are are going to scream "Hey we're not preaching any "religion" !!!
You guys crack me up .....
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Nov 29, 2010 - 01:32pm PT
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Yea, Werner... I'm wanking off on people, making claims that you have to just take on my word for, that cannot be verified.
SHEESH!?!?!?!
But, hey... At least that reply didn't read like you have Tourette's, as per your usual retorts.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Nov 29, 2010 - 01:48pm PT
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re: "alternative religion"
No. Then again, "alternative operating system" for the "practice" of living in the 21st century, sure, why not.
.....
EDIT
Just think, too... Climbers are supposedly the easy group - more open to change, more open to walking the wild side, than average - it's the public at large which is the harder group - that is, to dialog with about bringing innovation to beliefs that make up one's OS (operating system) for the practice of living.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 29, 2010 - 02:18pm PT
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"alternative operating system"
Yeah, name it anything you want.
Like you really understand the real operating system to begin with in completeness which you obviously don't otherwise you would see how everything naturally adjusts to time and circumstance.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Nov 29, 2010 - 03:13pm PT
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"Like you really understand the real operating system to begin with..."
So until we do, do nothing? Just sit on our butts when we're not climbing, is that it? Rescue in the valley is your job, looking past traditional belief systems - in the interest of best practices in the practice of living - is mine.
.....
Who would argue with the fact that modern man knows a great deal more about nature's operating system - esp as it applies to him on this earth in this solar system - than pre-scientific man. That fact is the justification (the grounds) for a new operating system.
"Our future depends powerfully on how well we understand this Cosmos..." -Carl Sagan
...and how successfully we incorporate this understanding into an adaptive "operating system for life guidance." -HFCS
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 29, 2010 - 03:27pm PT
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"So until we do, do nothing?"
It's already perfectly presented and understood by 3/4 of the entire cosmic creation.
You are in the 1/4 portion, completely lost and following all your other lost cases.
That's what lost cases prisoners do in jail, they learn and manufacture new ways to farther their criminal efforts.
There's no escape for you yet ......
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Nov 29, 2010 - 03:51pm PT
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It's already perfectly presented and understood by 3/4 of the entire cosmic creation. WOW!!! What a self-centered thing to say, and so confidently to boot.
What makes you so confident that we, here on Earth, are the only living beings capable of complex and/or abstract thought?
Not sure why I ask... It's not like you are going to give an answer with anything of substance.
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TWP
Trad climber
Mancos, CO
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Nov 29, 2010 - 03:55pm PT
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Responding to rrrADAM who wrote:
"TWP... The reasons it matter are:
-9/11
-Blue Laws
-Anti Evolution & Big Bang (see Texas school board)
-Dispensationalists influencing wars in the Middle East, and US policy regarding Israel
-Murdering of abortion doctors
-Denying civil rights to minorities (Gays)"
Your comments are relevant on the legal and political level rather than philosophical reasons to dissent from what I said. In fact, I may be in sympathy with your political prejudices on the issues you enumerate.
I know my history and the lesson to be learned about religion on the one hand and law and politics on the other: the two should never be mixed. Government should never take sides or become entangled in religious issues.
The First Amendment to the US Constitution seeks to create a division between church and state. This is the solution though in practice the line is hard to draw and battles over the boundary will persist forever. You are describing the behaviors of people who in my opinion don't share the American values of separation of church and state and freedom of speech. Those actions are the types of evil that should be resisted at every turn. I do believe in resistance to evil, ignorance and intolerance, but not because of any religion of my own or belief in the existence of God.
Thanks for your feedback rrrADAM.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 29, 2010 - 03:56pm PT
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You're not ready for the answer yet since you cant understand the "entire cosmic creation".
The "entire cosmic creation" includes everything including the spiritual stratum.
You're stuck somewhere, mostly trying to debunk gobee and his bible.
:-)
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Nov 29, 2010 - 04:16pm PT
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TWP... Agreed.
Werner... I asked you directly, as your statement implies that we here on Earth ARE the entire cosmic creation... That 3/4 of its population understands.
So, I asked you "what makes you so confident that we here on Earth is all there is", as far as thinking individuals capable of understanding, or asking about God?"
It was a simple question... But, as I said, you would provide nothing with substance. See, if you ask me "why" I believe something, I will give you an answer. You on the other hand, will not and/or cannot.
And a "careful" reading of my posts show that 'debunking the Bible' isn't my primary focus, nor topic... It is the thinking process of many believers, and their ability to keep their beliefs compartmentalized and seperate from their thinking critical mind. But, since the Bible is the "proof" for many, and that's all they offer to support their "thinking", it's an easy topic to debunk. People are more skeptical buying a car, than they are in regards to something they view as the "most important thing in their life". Doesn't make sense, does it? What's more important... A car, or their belief?
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 29, 2010 - 04:22pm PT
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what makes you so confident that we here on Earth is all there is
Again ... I never ever made any statement like that.
You are the one that is projecting yourself onto what I said.
You also can't read nor understand because it's way over your head.
Stick to trying to debunk the bible. At least that's your game you're familiar with.
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Nov 29, 2010 - 04:26pm PT
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Fair enough... We'll play this game...
Please explain what you mean here, how you get the numbers, and what they refer to:It's already perfectly presented and understood by 3/4 of the entire cosmic creation.
They are your exact words, so you can explain what you mean, right?
Please, be specific... Again, what do you mean, how do you get the numbers, and what do they refer to?
I look forward to a chance of getting a detailed reply... Even though I'm sure youo recognize you stepped in poo here, and just want to hide the fact and discretely try to get it off your shoe.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Nov 29, 2010 - 04:27pm PT
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What's more, they are populated by climbers who are clinging by last thin threads to the old notion of there being a "ghostly spirit" in the machine (when there is none) way more than by climbers willing and able to invest their energies to come to grips with the scientifically supported view that they are molecular machines, material bodies, which borrow their life energy (or life spirit) for a short time, yada, yada.
This was aimed at me, of course, but High Furc. looses his way the moment he projects his "ghostly spirit" onto the machine, which is once more the evolved and discriminating mind trying desperately to contrast no-thing with something, namely a machine, matter, stuff we can evaluate, measure, and so forth, all the things that "exist" in the material world. Spirit does no "exist," but it IS.
John
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 29, 2010 - 04:36pm PT
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so you can explain what you mean, right?
Adam LOL
I already did in my post previous to my last one above.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Nov 29, 2010 - 04:45pm PT
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But I notice you again didn't answer the question.
There is this idea - and I remind you, it is not only my idea but the growing idea of umpteen million others - that we are our material-based lifeworks, the sum total of our machinery of life. So the question again, how much time have you tried to adapt to this idea, to come to grips with this idea - psychologically - instead of fighting it - to see if it is as bad for belief, as bad for the practice of living, as many a naysayer would have us believe.
It's a pertinent, totally relevant question - because umpteen millions (conservatives esp) don't even try.
"If this body is all there is, then life is a big fat joke." Pat Robertson.
You think he gave any effort at all to try to adapt to the modern view as revealed by science?
Counsel: Spend your energies adapting to it, not fighting it.
.....
spirit (derived from the Latin, spirare, to breathe) that's all - there needn't be anything mystical or supernatural about it. My dog is a spiritual being having a canine experience. Pat Robertson is a spiritual being (although a seriously ill-informed one) having a human experience.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 29, 2010 - 04:49pm PT
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that we are our material-based lifeworks, the sum total of our machinery of life.
This is where you and I differ completely. ^^^^^
Life comes from life and the spiritual soul is that life force not that matter is the source of life ....
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Nov 29, 2010 - 05:05pm PT
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 29, 2010 - 09:02pm PT
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thaDood
You have the Muslim and Allah thing totally skewed.
Allah means "the Supreme Being." Allah Akbar.
"God is great." Allah means the greatest.
Try to see beyond the "dogma" ......
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 29, 2010 - 09:32pm PT
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No Allah is the same God you worship.
God has infinite names ....
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