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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Nov 15, 2010 - 03:21pm PT
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Again... For the third time... "WHY", as in specifically "WHAT" leads you to confidently believe that you have a soul, and that it will live on for eternity?
You have done a lot of "this is what I believe", but absolutely zero "this is WHY I believe it". That's what I'm trying to get you to look at.
As to "only memories going to Heaven"... Specifically, what do you think the sould consists of? Your memories are a part, yes? If there is more, PLEASE elaborate, and again, WHY do you believe that?
Also... Since you believe that "salvation" is only won through the grace of God, and in Jesus dying to win us that grace... Then that means John the Baptist is in Hell, right? Since he died before Jesus was able to win him grace... Same goes for all the other sinners who lived and died before Jesus atoned for their sins (E.g., Moses, Noah, Job, King David, etc...) How do you avoid this conflict? Or, do you just NOT think about things like that, that way there is no conflict?
Lastly... You "win" (or I "lose") only if God is petty, and if there is a God, I doubt he would be that petty, as that is a human traight pushed onto him... Just like Jealousy: "For I am a jealous God...".
In other words... If there is a God, it certainly isn't what you think it to be, and doesn't exist solely to care about whether people believed in him or not.
Now, I'll bet $$$ that you believe that God answers prayers, right? But, even though this has been shown to be wrong, time and again, that he does not answer prayers, you still believe it anyway. God answers prayers just as much a a robbit's foot brings luck.
See... Watch...
According to John, Jesus said:
"You may ask anything of me in my name, and I will do it." John 14:14
Jesus... Please reveal yourself and reply to me in this thread! It is certainly well within your powers. In Jesus name.
[crickets]
I'd get the same results if I rubbed on a rabbit's foot, huh?
Now don't get all, "he doesn't answer prayers like that." Read his words, then perhaps look up the word "anything". Or, do you suppose there's no internet in Heaven? Yea... That's it. Jesus is 'old skool'.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Nov 15, 2010 - 03:27pm PT
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rAdam, you're trying to use reason grounded in the Scientific Story on some people some of whom have never taken a physics or chemistry class. Or even ever read a nonfiction book outside of high school. Let alone hundreds of such books or courses.
You cannot squeeze blood out of a tulip.
But I admire your interest in the subject. American culture would have a different personality if more Americans were like you. And perhaps it wouldn't be losing so much ground year after year on the UN's achievement lists.
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Nov 15, 2010 - 03:46pm PT
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No worries, HR...
Just remember what I said... If you cannot reasonable articulate WHY you confidently believe something, then perhaps that belief isn't very reasonable... Certainly not worthy of 'confidence'.
Perhaps when you are able to really look into that... WHY you can't really articulate it in any reasonable manner*, you may be closer to looking at it from a different angle. It's one thing to 'feel' our way through somehting, and all together another to 'think' our way through... We buy used cars with more skepticism than we do in our beliefs of an imortal soul, and regardless of the belief system, it's believers always seem to be on the "winning side", and everybody else will pay for chooosing wrong. Just like you belief, as per your own words.
If you have a PhD, then I'm sure you will agree with the statement:
One's confidence should be directly (not inversely) proportional to the evidence.
Unfortunately, there are MANY who view keeping the faith in the face of contradicting evidence as a virtue... Like they win extra God points, worth a seat closer to God in the end. So to them, it is inversely proportional.
When one believes something, with all their heart... It is often at the expense of all their head.
*Articulate with words, in writing... Not just up in your head. Many things make perfect sense up in our heads, until we have to actually write them out, or explain them in detail to someone else.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Nov 15, 2010 - 03:54pm PT
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HR,
You state that those who choose to not "believe" in I presume your definition of a god will have made the wrong decision because, well, they will somehow be denied something in the event that there IS an afterlife.
Denied exactly what?
Are you saying it is your personal belief that billions of humans whom have lived and died throughout the past 200,000 years of homo sapien existence on this planet will be in effect "punished" by god when they die because it never occurred to them in their culture that there was such a thing as a god? Surely you are aware that the concept of a Christian defined god is only some 2000 years old, and not surely not everyone got the word that they were supposed to believe?
Also, you seem to be saying that god will somehow punish or deny those humans who simply did not care to believe in a god, in spite of having been clued in at some point in their lives. Your god will actually hurt, deny, punish people after they die?
Do I have your beliefs right?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Nov 15, 2010 - 04:43pm PT
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bump for HeucoRat
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Nov 15, 2010 - 06:31pm PT
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Boys, it looks like this thread has come to its end.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 15, 2010 - 08:06pm PT
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Over? Nobody's even been physically threatened on this thread yet, have they?
Well, I mean in this lifetime.
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luggi
Trad climber
from the backseat of Jake& Elwood Blues car
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Nov 15, 2010 - 11:11pm PT
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hey F...he got you to respond.....so what would you call that someone?
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go-B
climber
Matthew 25:40
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Nov 16, 2010 - 08:14am PT
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Nov 16, 2010 - 10:01am PT
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go-B
climber
Matthew 25:40
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Nov 17, 2010 - 08:09am PT
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go-B
climber
Matthew 25:40
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Nov 18, 2010 - 08:14am PT
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You make the call, but how cool is Jesus...
One thing I think about when the men who wanted to stone the woman is, how stupid are they, is the woman alone in adultery, or is a man involved?
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go-B
climber
Matthew 25:40
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Nov 19, 2010 - 08:16am PT
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It says it all...
Daily Readings from the Life of CHRIST, vol.2-John MacArthur
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Nov 20, 2010 - 06:35pm PT
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Maybe you can help me with this, go-b... As I'm having trouble envisioning how Jesus could ride into town on two animals, according to Matthew:
Matthew 21:5 "Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass."
Of course, you do know where that comes from, right?
Zechariah 9:9 "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he [is] just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass."
As I've said, numerous times before, the author of Matthew scoured the OT for any and all prophecy that he could spin Jesus into, and this was just one of many attemps to do so.
So, how exactly did he ride two animals AT THE SAME time, and why do the accounts in other Gospels have him only riding a donkey (I.e., one animal)?
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Nov 22, 2010 - 07:20am PT
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Wow... You got it bad, huh go-b?
You drank it, didn't you?
ALL of it... Intoxicated, you are.
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go-B
climber
Matthew 25:40
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Nov 22, 2010 - 10:09am PT
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High Fructose Corn Spirit...
Credit: Daily Readings from the Life of CHRIST, vol.2, John MacArthur
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Nov 25, 2010 - 11:26pm PT
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go fuk yourself,
use the bible to wipe up the jizm
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go-B
climber
Matthew 25:40
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Nov 26, 2010 - 11:06am PT
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1 Corinthians 1:25, For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Nov 26, 2010 - 12:06pm PT
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1 Atheists 1:25, For the foolishness of the unthinking will be their downfall, and the inconsistencies of their philosophy will bring untold suffering upon them at the end of their days.
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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Nov 26, 2010 - 02:49pm PT
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rrrADAM- "So exactly how did he ride two animals AT THE SAME time...?"
It doesn't say that He was riding two animals at the same time necessarily, although I also asked the same question when I first read that reference in Matthew to Zechariah!
The prophecy from the Old Testament(as you noted)states:
"Rejoice greatly O daughter of Zion; shout O daughter of Jerusalem, behold, thy King cometh unto thee: He is [just] and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass." Zechariah 9:9
This is referring(prophecy)of both His first coming to earth as a servant upon a donkey(ass), and "the second coming" upon a horse(colt), when He will return to rule the earth as King!
"And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse, and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war...and He was clothed in a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The Word of God." Revelations 19:11
See bold above, brutha... "And" means, in this case, "both".
Like if someone askes you, what did you eat tonight? Where you answer steak and potatoes. It means both.
Spin it however you like, but the fact remains, it's BS, REQUIRING you to rationalize it, so it "still could make sense". Note also that it isn't what other gospels state happened.
Thing is... Ya'll believe "it's in the Bible, therefore it MUST be true", so you bend over backwards sdo it "still can be true". Run into a problem? Just reinterpret whatever you need to make it fit.
Example... How old do you think the Earth is, and do you believe that we have evolved from a more primative species?
You'll be hard pressed to find ANYONE who believes in a young earth who is not a religious fundamentalist. Point being... Even though there is irrefutable evidense to support the a VERY old earth, and evolution, people must bend over backwards (ignore reality) so it (their belief) "still can be true".
Like I said:
Run into a problem? Just reinterpret whatever you need to make it fit...
Or, just mindlessly spew scripture, like a bot.
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