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go-B
climber
Matthew 25:40
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If you knew a fixed line was tattered would let your neighbor jug it or warn them? Jesus is my new lifeline from heaven, bomber!
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Just to go off topic for a second:
THIS is what a perfectly jetted spark plug should look like.
Note the nicely shaded insulator color.
And also note the distinct color change right at the bend of the side electrode.
This indicates the motor is perfectly timed, not too advanced or retarded.
And now we return you to your regular program.
Thanks for watching!
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Didn't I already answer this question correctly like 3000 posts ago? It's because their parents taught them to believe.
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pa
climber
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If you want to hear God laugh, tell Him your plan...
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Dood- The problem with your argument is that you can't have any idea what it's like to face that decision. You'll never be a woman (at least one that can bear children) and understand the emotional turmoil that exists. My wife is a devout catholic and spent her teenage and early adult years as a teen pregnancy counselor (advising against abortion). Through her experience, I have come to understand the gut-wrenching emotion and guilt that these women face. But my wife also believes that it is a personal choice and should be left up to the woman with appropriate, non-confrontational counseling provided.
I was going to counter your points about multiple births and % of convenience terminations because you didn't use any supporting references. I'll let you do that (and they're not difficult to find).
I'll try not to be confrontational here, but let me make sure I've got your position correct. You believe that abortion should be outlawed because life begins at conception and your god has condemned it. What else am I missing?
I also believe that life begins at conception, but "personhood" doesn't develop until significantly later. You know my position on god. The issue is that of legislation. You can vote in as many people that want to reinstate criminality, but that isn't going to change the point that your basic premise is founded on religion. As such, in this country you may not make laws based on that.
Also, outlawing abortion is not going to stop abortion. It has existed for thousands of years, and it will continue for thousands more. All it will do is prevent the less fortunate from having medically safe procedures because the rich will travel to countries that still perform it. Therefore, legislation is discriminatory. It also discriminates against professional women who might become pregnant as a result of failure of birth control methods. I can't think of how it discriminates against men. It also forces families who may not have the resources or desire to care for a severely disabled child to do so. Then the state has to spend countless thousands (or millions) on extraordinary medical care and special needs services throughout the life of this person. Now the family must use time and resources that might have been available for other family members to excel in life just to keep the unwanted challenged one alive until it dies with no hope of improvement. I know your story, but realize that your story is not typical and therefore not representative of the world at large. (unless you can find some references to contradict my view)
As in the drug issue, you need to address the reasons why people seek to do it. You cannot legislate morality. And as in the drug debate, the need for it has existed since time immemorial despite extraordinary efforts to prevent it. Legalize it (or for abortion, keep it legal) and put those resources to use addressing the root of the problem, not the symptom.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Well I believe in the Cosmic Governance (that I sometimes call "God") because it gave rise to our galaxy, solar system, planet and all living things on it. -Also because it is the "high law and order" that rules over everything. -Also I "believe in" it because with study, examination, a lot of it is intelligible, learnable.
Where I'm from, some choose to personify the Cosmic Governance while others don't. Or sometimes it goes either way depending on context, the conversation, etc. Notwithstanding any personification, the Cosmic Governance - just like "Mother" Nature - has never shown any sign of personal intelligence or sentience (personal mindfulness) like the persons in my life.
So is it a step up from something lower to something higher (a graduation of sorts) to move from believing in an ancient local deity (e.g., Quetzalcoatl, Aphrodite, Jehovah/Jesus) to believing in the Cosmic Governance? Some think so.
.....
re: the Cosmic Governance that I sometimes call "God" - that is, as long as there is no danger of the Cosmic Governance being confused (in the conversation) with Zeus or Jehovah or Ishtar.
Sometimes I call the Cosmic Governance by name: Hypercrates (hi perk' ruh tees) to further distinguish it/him. -Esp when I'm in conversations with Hindis or Christians / Muslims who think it's all about Siva or Jehovah when it is not. ;)
But I perhaps go too far since all this is new age (for lack of a better word) sh'it (or, innovation) that conservatives, otherwise creatures of habit, loathe. Keep it simple and don't change too much, they say.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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“… most remarkable of all are those patients who have deeply moving spiritual experiences, including a feeling of divine presence and the sense that they are in direct communication with God. Everything around them is imbued with cosmic significance. They may say, ‘I finally understand what it’s all about. This is the moment I’ve been waiting for all my life. Suddenly it all makes sense.’ Or, ‘Finally I have insight into the true nature of the cosmos.’ … God has vouchsafed for us ‘normal’ people only occasional glimpses of a deeper truth… but these patients enjoy the unique privilege of gazing directly into God’s eyes every time they have a seizure.” [V S Ramachandran & Sandra Blakeslee, Phantoms in the Brain, Fourth Estate Limited (1998), p179]
http://www.philosophyofreligion.info/theistic-proofs/the-argument-from-religious-experience/artificial-religious-experiences/
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jstan
climber
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From cintune's link, most interesting.
"Religious experiences, then, appear to be simply events in the brain; they need not be experiences of anything real at all."
The link, quite correctly, then points out that this does not prove god does not exist.
I would point out however it does disprove the very common assumption a religious experience proves god exists.
Cintune's link cuts the ground from beneath people who believe god exists because of an experience they had
AND
who also believe in rational thought.
A null set? I would hope not.
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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I am a human being that cares about the rights of the unborn(human being).
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Science proves that there is an ENERGY in us that keeps us TICKING...
I'd love to read the reference source on that claim.
Aerobic cellular energy (aka: life) is derived from the cleavage of a phosphate group from the adenosine triphosphate molecular complex. This complex is largely formed in the mitochondria of cells as a result of oxidative reduction, the key term being "oxidative."
Without oxygen, the mitochondria cannot function, which essentially turns off energy production, causing cell death (aka: death).
No magic, just straightforward biochemistry and physiology. Same thing for consciousness.
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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god schmod , governance via cosmic , glucose,... I wanna know why so many people believe in LOVE as an expression of God.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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You want PROOF???.
I thought you were alluding to some sort of proof that the soul exists.
Frankenstein I get...
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go-B
climber
Matthew 25:40
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Isaiah 55:6, “Seek the Lord while he may be found;
call upon him while he is near;
2 Corinthians 6:2 For he says,
“In a favorable time I listened to you,
and in a day of salvation I have helped you.”
Behold, now is the favorable time; behold, now is the day of salvation.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Re-read what you QUOTED me as saying...
Wow. Feeling a little lonely and desperate for someone to argue with? Maybe you should re-read my post you just quoted me from and try to figure out that maybe I was saying "oops". Go back to bed. It's still early.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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my sympathies re: dmv. See the salt of the earth there...
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go-B
climber
Matthew 25:40
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Nov 10, 2010 - 08:18am PT
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Psalm 80:17, But let your hand be on the man of your right hand,
the son of man whom you have made strong for yourself!
18 Then we shall not turn back from you;
give us life, and we will call upon your name!
19 Restore us, O Lord God of hosts!
Let your face shine, that we may be saved!
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Adventurer
Mountain climber
Virginia
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Nov 10, 2010 - 11:12am PT
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"Why do so many people believe in God"? (serious question?)
Here's a serious answer.
Human beings are the only creatures on Earth that live their entire lives with an awareness of their certain death to come someday. Humans also have a fear of death, and a strong tendancy toward self preservation.
Since nearly all religions promise some form of eternal life, after life, or a re-birth if you accept their God, it's easy to understand why so many believe.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Nov 10, 2010 - 12:15pm PT
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Human beings are the only creatures on Earth that live their entire lives with an awareness of their certain death to come someday
Really? You've determined this exactly how? Perhaps you have some sort of conclusive scientific research you can point me toward?
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jstan
climber
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Nov 10, 2010 - 12:52pm PT
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Seems to me there is pretty good data saying humans are the only specie unaware of the fact they could die today.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 10, 2010 - 01:34pm PT
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No we are completely obsessed with death.
Everything is geared towards trying to stop it ......
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