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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Oct 26, 2010 - 12:39am PT
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Do you have a problem with that Skep?
Of course not. You know I support your right to vote/pray/live as you see fit.
What I do have a problem with is your constantly contradicting yourself and spreading lies & innuendo wrapped up in the bible to further your agenda. I think you do it unconsciously and truly believe what you post. But when we point out the deficiencies of your statements, you don't issue a "mea culpa", you just behave like the picture I posted upthread.
If what you had posted was the verifiable truth this exchange would never have happened. Do some research before you make blanket statements that can be easily checked. Google is an amazing tool. And it is your responsibility to check your facts before you post, not ours.
Carry on.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Oct 26, 2010 - 01:02am PT
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Skep- "Constantly..."
What?
You come up with one example two at best after hundreds of posts...get lost!
You just can not face the truth of God's Word, so you nit pick one controvescial topic. The number of people who are against abortion. And it get's turned into a three part question. That goes way back to the ttactics used back in 1973 in regards to would you allow abortion in the first three months...
Like I said, my focus is on Heaven and Hell. You are apparently agitated by the subject and prefer to look for some excuse to discredit me and what Jesus Christ said about the two. But then you don't believe in God/Jesus, heaven or Hell. Hmmmn...
Like the verse says "We are not fighting against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness in this world, against the spirit of darkness in high places." Ephesians 6:12
"The spirit of the anti-christ..."
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Abenda
climber
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Oct 26, 2010 - 01:35am PT
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"You find youself in this transient, joyless world.
Turn from it, and take your delight in me.
Fill your heart and mind with me, adore me,
make all your acts an offering to me,
bow down to me in self-surrender.
If you set your heart upon me thus,
and take me for your ideal above all others,
you will come into my Being.
Bhagavad Gita, IX
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Oct 26, 2010 - 01:46am PT
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Skeptimistic- "Constantly contradicting yourself and spreading lies and innuendo wrapped up in the Bible to further your agenda."
Lies and innuendo? I stated what i read about Obama in the local newspaper. And the number of people who believe in abortion verses those who don't, one or the other has fluctuated in the past ten years. and will probably do so in the coming ten years.
You couldn't contribute in any way to the subject at hand( i joined this subject to correct "cliffhanger" on what a specific offering entailed). And continued in educating Norton to the judgment of the Israelites who had began the practice of sacrificing their young by adopting the practices of the pagan Canaanites. And how this judgment came down on both of them and how it parallels the Christian believers to this very day. And our country in regards to judgment and the sacrificing of the innocent children(abortion). And all you can do is jump in and tag team with Norton in regards to the amount of people that support or are against abortion at one time or another!
Norton was quoting the Bible out of context, and with out any understanding of what or why God was taking the actions He did. It is all confirmed in the Bible. I quoted the verses, gave insight into the Bible relationshops between God and the Israelites and the Canaanites, etc. Drew parrales to the situation between the church in America today, and all you can do is accuse me of a flagrant lie "contradicting yourself again and again."
You were enraged because i had some sound teaching and was able to contest the the conjectures of both "Cliffhanger' and Norton, and not able to contribute to the discussion in any way then to jump on one small and controversial subject, unable to counter my sound Biblical teaching and acuse me of being a liar.
That makes sense, coming from someone who is a pawn of the "father of lies."
You are the one with an agenda Skeptimistic. You came to this forum with one agenda, your hate for the God of the Holy Bible and the people who believe in Him.
I am content with the fact that i stirred the pot, got the enemy(Satan)annoyed and without defense. that is what the Word of God will do...Hallelujah!
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Oct 26, 2010 - 02:37am PT
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I'm a Christian. Not perfect by any means. Running the race. No matter what, I want to know the truth.
Christendom and Christians in America really need to pray for our nation and try to turn it around from so being smug and arrogant and return to GOD. GOD does judge nations. He has done so many times in the past as related in his Good Word The Bible. I am very concerned for America. We seem to be making things worse around the world and not better.
Is this by design? Out of planned Chaos comes Order? The Order "they" want is not designed or wanted by GOD. The signs of the time suggest this is true.
I voted for Gore, Kerry, and now Obama. At the time they were the best choice between the 2 choices given. None are perfect. I wish I knew more about Obama before I voted. But again we were really only given 2 choices. I thought I knew him. I didn't. He has done some good things, but then other things he has done I can not wrap my head around. How can a Constitutional Law Professor do some of the things he does? Why hasn't he turned around all the illegal acts of the Bush Administration and returned to the Constitution and Bill of Rights and the rule of Law? He has no excuse.
This bothers me. I wish I had seen this short film before I voted. Probably would have voted the same, but I wouldn't have had my hopes up. I thought he was going to be different.
Obama Mocks Bible, but said he's Christian.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvnY8WY24bA&feature=related
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go-B
climber
Matthew 25:40
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Oct 26, 2010 - 07:25am PT
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"A true real Christian is unbelievably rare"
There was only one real Christain, Jesus!
The rest of us ride in on Jesus' Robe!
Forthwith there would be no hope for us either!
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Oct 26, 2010 - 09:55am PT
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Ok, "constantly" was a stretch. My bad, sorry. (see? that's all it takes.not too difficult at all.)
But wow. How do you sit down with your panties so bunched up like that? Seems endemic in the ultra-pious population that you can't deal with fact when it contradicts what you've already decided.
"Enraged?" Hardly. The fact that you think I was tends to confirm my conclusion above. Frustrated that you ignored my rebuttals to your claims is more like it.
I don't "hate god & the bible & christians." I can't hate something that I don't believe exists or people that I think are misguided & slightly delusional. Like my patients with a TBI when they act out. They can't help it & if I took it personally, I wouldn't last long in this profession. What I do take issue with are people who blindly (or purposefully) propagate lies and innuendo, even when presented with concrete proof to the contrary.
I have never questioned your biblical knowledge or faith once you posted that very moving story back at the beginning of October. I have only pointed out where claims you made were wrong and provided references to back up my rebuttals. That you read into it an attack on your religion is very telling. Very obtuse. The fact that you are not willing to do the same when you make claims like you have tells me you have a dark agenda. I think your jesus would not shy away from the truth when presented it. Funny you do.
Be sure that whenever I read something as egregious as "75% of Americans" support banning abortion without some evidence to back up that claim, I'll be there to shine a light on the truth, defend the Constitution and protect "the will of the people."
Enjoy!
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Oct 26, 2010 - 12:01pm PT
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dudes, religion don't make sense unless you stop taking everything so literally.
paul, to explain the catholic position on abortion. the catholics, btw, have spent the most time trying to think things through, and they present something which makes the most sense, far more sense than their breakaway bretheren. but they suffer from the same mistake, taking it all too literally.
catholics will tell you that all humans are tainted from conception with original sin, the consequence of adam and eve's big mistake. it's okay for catholics to accept evolution, but they must accept, at some unknown point, a fundamental difference between ourselves and "lower" animals, even those as close as the chimpanzee and perhaps half the extinct hominids. anyway, adam and eve had a choice. if they had chosen obedience, paradise would have been at hand, but we are cursed to our vale of tears, into which jesus has come to light the way.
original sin is taken away by baptism. the reason they want to protect all the fetuses is to give them the opportunity to get to heaven, which begins with baptism. it's also the reason it's okay to kill people like crazy in wars. they've all been born into this world, hopefully as many have been baptized as possible, and you may actually be sending some to heaven, although for sure a bunch will go to hell.
now how about these poor unbaptized unborns? you get the same problem with a miscarriage, and catholic women who suffer one are encouraged to baptize the remains before the life goes out of it. like i say, it's well thought out.
the catholic church invented a place called limbo to house the unbaptized innocents. it comes from the latin word for "border", and we are told it is "neither here nor there". there is no pain for these sorry ass unfortunates, like there is for those in hell, but they will never know the bliss of heaven because they just didn't make it into the program.
i tell you, klimmer, you gotta become a catholic. you will be so at home with this stuff.
Jan
I am behind you 100% on your above post
nice work
yeowks, actually agreeing with dr. f here. ˇmilagrone!
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MisterE
Social climber
Bouncy Tiggerville
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Oct 27, 2010 - 12:21am PT
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Best shot ever of Juan and his best friend
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Oct 27, 2010 - 12:47am PT
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Nobody is in favor of abortion. Everyone realizes that in an ideal world it wouldn't exist. The question is why it persists and whether it should be legal in some circumstances.
The bottom line is that women get pregnant and men don't. Until men do get pregnant and fall victim to sexual violence at the same rate as women, any attempt by them to say who should or should not have access to abortion is hypocrisy at best and criminality at worst.
Unfortunately, men still control most of the powerful institutions in our society so its easy for them to voice their moral concern for something that will never happen to them. And when they really want to control women they try to make birth control illegal as well. Of course those Third World countries where birth control is illegal are precisely the countries that have the highest abortion rates. Thus the male moralists bring about the very conditions they say they dislike the most.
I'll say again, leave abortion laws to women and let men control their own desires for capital punishment and war.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Oct 27, 2010 - 12:53am PT
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Dood- Good job on preparing and executing a rebuttal with references. I applaud you. Keep it up.
Unfortunately, what I have understood you to want is total banning of abortion, according to your interpretation of "god's word." Therefore 78% of people would not support your extremist view of abortion. Now if I'm wrong about your view, then I'm at a disadvantage. But I'm reasonably certain of my analysis since you demonstrate a largely strict literalist position when it comes to scriptural morality. And if you do support abortion at all, how does that jive with your faith? You know, the whole "thou shalt not kill" and "life begins at conception" thing?
Sorry to blow a hole in your analysis. But I guess that's what we "devil's pawns" do.
I await your pious wrath...
Edit: well said Jan!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Oct 27, 2010 - 02:38am PT
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thaDood-
I definitely agree with you. I just wish more people calling themselves Christian had similarly compassionate attitudes.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Oct 27, 2010 - 04:30am PT
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thaDood/Trip-
This just proves that when you're talking from your own experience, you are a warm compassionate person that we learn from. I'm still amazed by your story of your frightening childhood experience and spiritual conversion as a result. It's only when you go into your autopilot Bible quoting that you turn people off.
Scripture is obviously important to you, but how those principles work out for you in person, as you wrestle with all the gray areas of life, is what is meaningful for the rest of us.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Oct 27, 2010 - 05:07am PT
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Dood/Trip-
We're all guilty at some level.
My equivalent is falling back on some dry intellectual argument.
A wise person once told me - few are converted by logic, many by love.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Oct 27, 2010 - 10:19am PT
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Ya know, I think I like ThaDood more than Tripl7. ;-)
Seriously, I rarely get offended when people show they're human once in a while by becoming defensive. I certainly have been guilty of that too many times myself. I know and have said a few times here that you are a compassionate, deeply faithful person. I'm sure I'd be proud to call you my friend.
Certain people on this n.g. have gone off the deep end and seem to be stuck on trying to out-offend their "opponent." I used to be that way in spades back on wreck-dot and even my early posts here. But over the last year especially, I've been trying to be more like Brutus and not at all like "the carabiner guy."
I try not to come off as attacking, but my obviously my insistent tone can be easily interpreted as such. Objective, logical discourse is something I hold dear to my heart, probably because I'm trying to be better at it.
Likewise, I apologize for any offensive remarks or images I might have posted. (saaay, where'd that picture of the kid with his fingers in his ears go...? ;-))
Can't say it won't happen again (being rude), but I'll be extra vigilant in trying to minimize it and be more like a high water mark in the n.g. as Brutus was.
You did well with your rebuttal and I hope others will follow suit so we can arrive at the objective truth of whatever we're discussing rather than melt down into a flame war.
Good on'ya!
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Homer
Mountain climber
742 Evergreen Terrace
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Oct 29, 2010 - 11:17am PT
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Thanks for your thoughts.
I find it reflective of our confusion Jan that you say a wise person, and not a kind person. We often misunderstand which is more convincing.
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go-B
climber
Matthew 25:40
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Oct 30, 2010 - 08:43am PT
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John 7:6, Jesus said to them, “My time has not yet come, but your time is always here.
Matthew 11:28, Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
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Paul Martzen
Trad climber
Fresno
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DR F stated,
Sorry
all your dayz on earth wasted, worshipping graven images and mythical gods
Please! Please! Don't tell me that! I thought every thing else I do in life is a waste; climbing, kayaking, working, hanging out. I was hoping I could make up for it, but now you say that worshiping mythical gods is a waste too??? Dang!
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