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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Oct 25, 2010 - 10:34pm PT
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Trip, you are a delusional liar.
You flat made it up.
I read six major national newspapers every day.
There was NEVER anything reported about ANY kind of "groundwork" that
President Obama "laid" to allow abortions past the second trimester.
The fact is that is what YOU want to believe.
Why? Because he just happens to be a Democrat.
And Democrats believe government should NOT tell a woman what she can or
cannot do with your own personal reproductive organs.
Democrats ARE as "Christian" as You are. And MANY Christians long ago
broke with their Churches on this issue.
I will not get into an actual abortion debate with you.
But, I also will NOT allow you to flat our LIE and MAKE UP stories
that somehow YOU have access to Obama's PRIVATE records of what legislation
he was planning to sign while President.
YOU DON'T have that information. No one does.
You should apologize for spreading lies.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Oct 25, 2010 - 10:40pm PT
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Hmm. I think I found what you've been alluding to, Trippy. And it's from your favorite source for fair & balanced news!
President Obama made clear on Wednesday that a controversial abortion rights law is not among his top priorities, despite a campaign promise that signing the bill would be his first act in office.
Amazing what happens when you look at an issue with your mind already made up...
C'mon, just admit you did imply that "over 75% of Americans" want RvW repealed. It would mean so much to me.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Oct 25, 2010 - 10:53pm PT
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Dr. F-
At last we agree on something!
I suspect we would agree on a lot more.
The main problem as I see it, is that the exponents of mindless religious dogma have driven a vast wedge between those who believe in a non physical dimension to this universe and those who don't, to the point that it is now difficult to carry out any kind of dialog between us.
Natural curiosity, philosophical speculation, spiritual experiences and religion have all become tarred with the same dogmatic brush.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Oct 25, 2010 - 11:00pm PT
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In FACT, the OPPOSITE is true.
The ONLY legislation that President Obama has signed having to do with
abortion is the one in the healthcare bill that OUTLAWS spending Federal
dollars on abortions.
Obama signs executive order on abortion funding limits
HEALTH CARE
March 24, 2010|By the CNN Wire Staff
Rep. Bart Stupak of Michigan and 12 other House Democrats attended the signing of the executive order.
President Obama signed an executive order Wednesday ensuring that existing limits on the federal funding of abortion remain in place under the new health care reform law.
Unlike the signing of the health care bill Tuesday -- which was conducted under the glare of television cameras -- Wednesday's event was closed to the news media.
It was attended by Rep. Bart Stupak of Michigan and 12 other House Democrats opposed to abortion rights, without whose help the landmark overhaul bill would not have passed, political observers say.
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-03-24/politics/obama.abortion_1_offer-abortions-abortion-funding-abortion-opponents?_s=PM:POLITICS
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luggi
Trad climber
from the backseat of Jake& Elwood Blues car
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Oct 25, 2010 - 11:01pm PT
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Taco pontificators, the world we live on revolves 67,000 mph through space around a ball of fire...it is not just another ordinary day.....
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Oct 25, 2010 - 11:17pm PT
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Jan- "America represents 3% of the world population...you will never convince me that god only cares about 3% of the human race..."
Get a handle on it!
I never said that God was only interested in 3%/America. And to begin with, only a very small percentage of America are Christian. There are millions, perhaps somewhere close to a billion practicing Christians through out the world that are every bit as important to God as Christians in America. Your putting words/false accusations into my mouth. I don't have a clue what you are referring to!
I am not fixated on America. I was referring to the quote I made early on in regards to the Queen of the South! She only had the wisdom of Solomon to convince her of the God of the Bible. We have Jesus Christ, and the forgiveness of sins, churches, Evangelist, the Bible, etc...
"The Queen of the South will rise up with this generation and condemn them; because she came from the ends of the earth to hear Solomon's wisdom, but someone greater than Solomon is here..."
America, and the people of this generation is who Jesus was prophecying about, along with the people that had Him crucified. We have more churches, Bibles preachers, etc. yet it turns it's back and passes abominable laws.
That is why is wrath is coming down on America. They will be held more accountable. Simply because it has access to more knowledge of God, and rejects it, passes laws that are in direct defiance of God's laws.
If you believe in some other god, that is your choice.
BTW, i didn't vote for Bush, support going into Iraq, nor did I vote for Johnson. I did demonstrate against the Viet Nam War. But I did then and continue to know support our soldiers.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Oct 25, 2010 - 11:26pm PT
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Trip says that only a very small number of Americans are Christian.
WHAT A CROCK!
Trip, you really do just make up your own facts!!
WRONG
The VAST majority of Americans are Christians.
Eighty-three percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians. Most of the rest, 13 percent, have no religion. That leaves just 4 percent as adherents of all non-Christian religions combined — Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and a smattering of individual mentions.
That's quite different from the world at large: Fifty-two percent of the world's population is non-Christian, compared to 4 percent in the United States; and one-third is Christian, compared to 83 percent in the United States. (These are rough comparisons, because the world figures, reported by the Encyclopedia Britannica, are for the full population, while the U.S. figures are among adults only.)
Religion in the U.S. vs. the World:
United States World
Christian 83% 33
No religion 13 15
All non-Christian religions 4 52
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/dailynews/beliefnet_poll_010718.html
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Oct 25, 2010 - 11:31pm PT
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Norton, I said he initiated/restarted the process to have it brought before Congress. I should have made more careful note of the specifics back then, since no one else seemed to take much notice. But it was a definate instigation of a process. Once again, sorry that I didn't keep a copy of the paper. The point was then, and now was/is it will eventually pass with the current liberal majority supreme court we have firmly in place for the next 15-20 years.
But the real problem is the heart of the people, including the back slidden, hypocritical Christian church. That is who God is calling to repent and turn from there wicked ways. I already covered this on another thread. The one about the guy burning the Koran or whatever!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Oct 25, 2010 - 11:31pm PT
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America, and the people of this generation is who Jesus was prophecying about ......... We have more churches, Bibles preachers, etc. yet it turns it's back and passes abominable laws.
That is why is wrath is coming down on America. They will be held more accountable. Simply because it has access to more knowledge of God, and rejects it, passes laws that are in direct defiance of God's laws.
This is exactly the kind of reasoning that I was objecting to!
Just because we have the most physical church buildings, or a Bible in every motel room or are the most preached at people, doesn't mean that we have most access to the knowledge of God.
I also feel confident that a loving God will understand and excuse the people who turned away because they just couldn't stand any more self righteous and hypocritical preaching of dogma.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Oct 25, 2010 - 11:33pm PT
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Norton, I am talking about the Protestant/Evangelical born again believing church.
Not the Catholic, Mormon, Jehovah Witness, etc. church. If you remove the Catholic church, that's a significant portion. Although there are born again believers in Christ among those denominations, they just haven't seperated from them. i was an 8u yr old Catholic who asked Jesus into my heart. I didn't knows of any other churches that believed in Him. And was told if i simply entered another church I would be damned. This was the late 1950's, a different world at that time. Things certainly have changed.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Oct 25, 2010 - 11:35pm PT
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Trip, I am really seeing it now.
You are factually challenged.
You are just wrong about a lot of things.
NOW you say the "court" as in the US Supreme Court is LIBERAL and as such
will be for the next twenty years.
YOU ARE A IDIOT.
The present US Supreme Court is one of the most CONSERVATIVE in history.
It is solidly 5-4 hard core right wing conservatives.
AGAIN, your "facts" are flat wrong.
Don't you ever FACT CHECK anything before you form an opinion? NOT
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Oct 25, 2010 - 11:38pm PT
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I am talking about the Protestant/Evangelical born again believing church.
Not only are Christians only 20% of the word's population, but that's not even good enough. One has to disregard Catholic and Orthodox Christians who are the vast majority, and mainstream Protestants, and Mormons etc. and acknowledge that only evangelical born again Christians have the truth?
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Oct 25, 2010 - 11:49pm PT
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Norton, OK i relinquish the fact that i am not in tune with the current political environment. I have always stated that i am not interested in politics, it is not my particular focus. And i felt that this so called marriage between the Christian church and politics was a big mistake. So, that doesn't mean that what I read the day after the election(when everyone else was all in a buzz)was not true.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Oct 25, 2010 - 11:53pm PT
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So, I will vote accordingly to put people into office who will eventually elect judges that represent the will of the people
Yep.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Oct 25, 2010 - 11:53pm PT
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Skeptimistic!
Now you have gone and "hurt my fillings". Lol...
BTW, where is the quote that you were certain i made?
Thought so, believe i deserve an apology.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 25, 2010 - 11:54pm PT
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Eighty-three percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians.
Rubber stamped themselves as such.
A true real Christian is unbelievably rare and very very difficult to find in this day and age.
Show bottle is very predominate in this day and age .....
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Oct 25, 2010 - 11:58pm PT
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BTW, where is the quote that you were certain i made?
Huh? Could you please clarify?
Oh, do you mean this one that I posted 2 pages ago? Still waiting for an answer on that one.
From your post Oct 4, 2010 at 4:55 pm PT:
"So, I will vote accordingly to put people into office who will eventually elect judges that represent the will of the people(75% or more are against abortion)."
So yes, literally you didn't speak the words, "the majority of Americans are currently in favor of over turning Roe vs Wade." But by stating (falsely, as I & Norton have pointed out) that "75% or more are against abortion", you implied that their "will" is to overturn Roe v Wade. Do you have some other interpretation of the above that I'm not understanding?
I know a good dentist if you need one.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Oct 26, 2010 - 12:08am PT
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This bears repeating.
FACT: President Obama is AGAINST Federal dollars going for abortions.
Don't you DARE make another dumbass comment that he is not a good "Christian"
Did BUSH sign a Bill flatly denying our taxpayer dollars paying for abortions?
NO
But, Obama DID. Now, you should apologize for LYING about his very clear
stance on the involvement of the Federal government in abortions.
It is exactly the OPPOSITE of what YOU "believed" it was.
President Obama signs executive order on abortion funding limits
HEALTH CARE
March 24, 2010|By the CNN Wire Staff
Rep. Bart Stupak of Michigan and 12 other House Democrats attended the signing of the executive order.
President Obama signed an executive order Wednesday ensuring that existing limits on the federal funding of abortion remain in place under the new health care reform law.
Unlike the signing of the health care bill Tuesday -- which was conducted under the glare of television cameras -- Wednesday's event was closed to the news media.
It was attended by Rep. Bart Stupak of Michigan and 12 other House Democrats opposed to abortion rights, without whose help the landmark overhaul bill would not have passed, political observers say.
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-03-24/politics/obama.abortion_1_offer-abortions-abortion-funding-abortion-opponents?_s=PM:POLITICS
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Oct 26, 2010 - 12:21am PT
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Yes, exactly what i do. Or should be doing. I didn't vote in the Bush/Obama election, and as far as i can remember, I only voted at the most, twice in my whole life. But then my memory isn't that great. Like I said plolitics isn't my focus.
But I do believe I/Christians should vote for who they believe would best fullfil the values they believe in.
Do you have a problem with that Skep?
But i believe it is even more important to live out those values/beliefs with out any hypocrisy, in your day to day life. This is where the salt of the earth is. This is where your children/neighbors/friends/fellow workers will learn from. WWhat will make a difference.
Therefore, I believe Christians are the one's who are largely at held accountable for the condition that America is in.
God was speaking to the Christians/believers when He said;
"If I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command locust to devour the land, or send a plague among My people, if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves and seek My face and pray and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land." 2 Chronicles 7:13-14
I believe at this time he is speaking directly to the Christian church here in America. No Jan, I am not fixated on America! But it is "our land" and we are going through some serious trials. And i am fully aware of the hypocritical and apathetic condition of the church in my country. And I, along with my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ have are responsible, and held accountable.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Oct 26, 2010 - 12:33am PT
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I am fully aware of Obama's not allowing fed funing of abortion. I am also aware of his taking a firm stance in support of Israel(i believe this was about one day after his taking office, or inaugeration.
But you guy's are changing the subject. I said long ago that i have little interest in politics.
We were discussing hell, etc...that, and keeping people out if it, is my focus.
edit: I didn't lie about anything, and i owe no apologies. Obama acted on the day after his election, and it was regarding the last tri-mester of pregnancy. That i am sure of. A man that doesn't allow a national day of prayer, then invites Muslim's(or perhaps it was Hindu's)into the Whitehouse for prayers is questionable at best. And declares that the United States is no longer a Christian Nation?
Don't go preaching to me about what a "good Christian" is Norton the avowed atheist. I have studied this guy's so called relationship with Christ, from day one.
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