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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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It seems that we need both a correction and a clarification.
Correction. The date on the photo above should read Dec,1961 not 1962. BK was still a cute [?] newborn.
Clarification. Dick and I were climbing the Acrophobes, not the Crest. Although the caption says "Hamie and the Acrophobes", I should have been more specific.
The Upper Crest was not climbed until the following summer, when Les MacDonald made the FA. He was so pumped by his new route that he invited me back the next w/e for the second ascent. Fun, fun.
Several years later I made the third ascent with Roger Marshall, a feisty 'working-class' Brit, who was always great company. Sadly he later died while attempting to solo the north face of Everest.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 8, 2012 - 02:03pm PT
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It's just a straight donation. I just donated thirty bucks towards the cause. That's 3 bucks for every lead pitch and if he succeeds I will donate another 20 for a total of fifty. If not i expect at least a couple pitches at the gym or cragging somewhere.
Hamie- Yes quite. Except for interspersed with moments of "Oh sh!t I better make this turn or I'm gunna die!" And going exceedingly fast while floating on a giant flowing pillow...
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 8, 2012 - 02:07pm PT
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Wow! Cool story Hamie! Thanks for that!
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Cruised by theChief before work today, in hopes of providing a quick live report & snap a few of Luke's ascent. The wall was desolate, I called Luke to see wtf was going on or if was in need of assistance to drag something up there & his phone was off, I hope u guys haven't been had :-)
Luckily there was some boulderer friends around trying to embrace the blobs with their heels so the 7min trip from the couch was not a total loss as some sort of climbing action was observed.
Edit- Hamie cool history there, cheers!
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thekidcormier
Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
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Got shut down at mercy me. started up the first 3 bolts of the old bolt ladder and the fourth and fifth bolts were broken. Could have macgyverd a stick clip past the two broken bolts but was scared of the 51 year old bolts and anchor.
Tried out a new system on the first two pitchs;
[Click to View YouTube Video]
It worked awesome.
So I'm thinking of heading back up tomorrow with a bolt kit to replace a couple bolts of the baldwin/cooper ladder and the anchors.
What do you guys think? Wasted effort?
Should I cough up the the dough and get a pass to the Grandwall BOuldering Co-op?
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Haha nice Luke, call me in the am if u want a catch to get off the ground, or if u don't feel like hanging out in the wet, cold, lonesome ill be drinkin tea in the boulders all day, climbing with my heels.
As for the gym pass........
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thekidcormier
Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
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Seriously no ones going to publicly chime in on the idea of replacing a couple rivets and the station on the Baldwin Cooper, to make it passable?!?
I've privately talked to two anonymous climbers, one who has used the bolt ladder in the past and offered t supply machine head rivets for the effort.
The other climber, who as far as I know has not used said ladder, has informed me that its a bad ideas and I would destroying something of historic value.
I'm going to make some tuning folks. When I get back I hope some of you have spoken up.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2012 - 11:19am PT
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Something of historic value is in the rock, not on the rock. Pull the bolts and make sure they go to the right people i say. Then the historic route can also be used again!
Edit: 666 left till 5000....
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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"I hope some of you have spoken up."
Tuning folks? Well it's a tough call, but I have to go with......
1. Ian and Sylvia
2. Joan Baez
3. Pete Seeger
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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The Grand Wall bolt ladder is recognized in the park's master plan (or rock climbing strategy) as of historical significance, and not to be tampered with. Replacing missing bolts, preferably in the existing holes with something like the original units, would likely be the way to go. It'll take a few decades to replicate the rusty nail atmosphere, and don't leave hangers on the bolts - it's way more fun to loop parachute cord over them. Nuts on most of the bolts would be OK, but leave about 5% without, and a few bent down a bit for extra cord-looping fun.
The Vancouver Rock Climbing Group at its fundraiser for Habitat for Humanity last night, at Cliffhanger in Vancouver. Last week they were at Cliffhanger in Coquitlam, next week at the Hive, a bouldering gym. They were having fun, and thought the event was going well.
The guy hanging upside down with the red & white hat on is Joe, the organizer.
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'Mo
Big Wall climber
Squamish, BC
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Hello,
I am responding to your opinion on replacing hardware on the Baldwin Cooper bolt ladder. My opinion is to not do this. I believe that the old ladder is of historical value and I get a kick out of looking at it, I would however find it quite distasteful to see shimmering new hardware on this section of wall.
No one uses the bolt ladder anymore, and I believe you are using it because the thought of using the Merci Me approach is unpalatable: soaking, run out 5.8, by yourself, is an intimidating prospect! Although I think an adept aid climber could navigate past the busted rivets with some sort of cheater stick and I do agree that you shouldn't be hanging yourself and your wall rig off an original anchor, I do think you could bypass this anchor and use another modern anchor on this section of wall with a longer rope and a small pendulum.
It would be different deal if this were a standard pitch on a standard aid route eg (Cannabis Wall)But the Grand Wall has evolved and the use of new bolts on and around it should be considered carefully.
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thekidcormier
Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
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Thanks MH and Mo, going to leave it be,
I got two pitches down, so any one who's doing the 5 buck per pitch donation is in for 10 so far...
Probably gonna get back at it early this week with either a hooking approach, or perhaps a blow torch and my free shoes.
I've tried hookng the second pitch in the rain on my Uncle Bens Ascent but wasn't able to find hook placements with in reach past the second bolt. Maybe a grappling hook on a ski pole will do the trick.
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bmacd
Trad climber
100% Canadian
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To wait for dry rock and clear skies, might be the sensible thing to do.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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The Grand Wall bolt ladder is recognized in the park's master plan (or rock climbing strategy) as of historical significance, and not to be tampered with.
Oh, yes, much better to leave the existing crap in place. Any one who uses it might die, but that doesn't matter, does it, because the bible says "Thou must not change Squamish from the way it was thirty years ago" And what the hell, any deaths due to the non-tamper clause will, in time, also have historical significance.
What a load of total bullsh#t.
Sure the Grand Wall ascent has historical significance, but rusting-out quarter-inch split shafts as holy objects? Give me a break.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2012 - 05:50pm PT
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+1000 ghost! It's cerro torre all over again! ;)
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Virtually no one uses the initial Grand Wall bolt ladder any more - Luke may be the first in quite some time. It's not a hazard to anyone. Some of the bolts are newer, for example due to more recent routes crossing or overlapping with it. A few are missing. If it isn't needed for climbing, and doesn't pose any harm, why not leave it as it is? It can quietly rust away, and we can recite Greek myths at Perry's next Friday (21st).
Perhaps Luke should be given a bye, and allowed to fix ropes from above on key areas that would otherwise be unclimbable when wet? Although there's snow on Bellygood today, and carrying up eight to ten ropes and the needed gear wouldn't be much fun.
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bmacd
Trad climber
100% Canadian
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Luke my offer to supply the machine heads to retro the old ladder still stands.
If the Balldwin Cooper bolts are so sacred the the ones on the pillar would not have gotten chopped, nor would Perry have replaced bolts on the upper bolt ladder to facilitate his lieback, and then the Squamish guides replaced how ever many else ?
The only precedent here is hypocrisy. The statement that they are part of the park master plan is a load of BS.
Fact is, these bolts are now, very dangerous, and were then, a lame ass Atrocity. Truly Squamishes own version of the Maestri route on Cerro Torre
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Here's a novel concept.
It's called consideration of context.
I pulled the 1/4" bolts out from beside the Pillar after watching way too may people run for them in the days of hexes, then take horrifying lobs onto them with nothing backing them up.
By the way, they came out with shocking ease.
With the advent of SLCDs, the bolts had outlived their need.
I was also explicit that it would be reasonable (though unnecessary) to replace the originals with 3/8 stainless. So far no one's done it and probably won't.
As has been flogged ad nauseum, Baldwin and Cooper took some flak for their first ladder.
It's appropriate to make comparison to Maestri's ladders because in 62 the notion of the Diretissema was very much in vogue and Maestri wasn't the only protagonist, the Brandler Hasse on the Cima Grande as example.
All things considered, given the tools of the day and the fact B&C were first, the criticisms directed at them were easy shots from the safety of the bleachers.
With the advent of sticky rubber, better gear and a perspective gained on the big face routes on Middle along with a better sense of the local terrain, the BC ladders were bypassed via Merci Me at 11a A0 and Cruel Shoes 10d by yours truly.
The old ladders have fallen in to disuse and are at best an amusing anachronism and at worst an eyesore. While they have some interesting history, they are not in my view, deserving of designation as historically or culturally significant. It's hard to imagine any climbing artifice left in place worthy of such recognition.
Given my druthers, the remnants of the old ladder would be removed leaving opportunity for a cool free route linking the top of the Flake with Les MacDonald's legendary effort on the upper reaches of that smooth expanse. Conversely, replacing the bolts would be retrograde.
With regard to the bolted lieback into the Flats, as previously thrashed and debated, they were placed long before big cams were available and I suspect even todays #5 Camalots might be a bit small for the leaning off width. Having said that, technology will advance and perspectives change and these contrivances may too outlive their original necessity.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2012 - 08:30pm PT
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I've tried hookng the second pitch in the rain on my Uncle Bens Ascent but wasn't able to find hook placements with in reach past the second bolt. Maybe a grappling hook on a ski pole will do the trick.
You got hosed by Merci Me that time until it dried out too.. What's wrong with having
a wet weather alternative via a bolt ladder which was established on the FA of the wall?
I think it's high time that we went and pulled all that old hardware off the wall and put it where it belongs. In a museum where it can be preserved rather than being left out to rot in the elements.
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Relic
Social climber
Vancouver, BC
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So you can't climb a bolt ladder or a 5.7 cuz its wet. Wow. You are so light. Maybe you should give puddle jumping a try.
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