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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Oct 24, 2010 - 07:23pm PT
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Sounds like fun.
One woman outside began screaming at the Christians to kill each other and rape children.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 24, 2010 - 07:30pm PT
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Once again God approves of forcible rape.
You said there is no God.
And now say there is one.
You wouldn't know nor recognize God if you met him face to face although in every breath in your entire life you are face to face with him.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 24, 2010 - 07:51pm PT
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It was written by God.
You are wrong.
And God says that we should rape, murder, and torture each other.
You are wrong again.
You need help.
The kind money can't buy ......
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Oct 24, 2010 - 08:31pm PT
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Cliffhanger,
Not so, they were given as a "Heave offering" to the priests, and most likely became their servants.
God forbade child sacrifice. That is what all the tribes were doing(sacrificing children). It(human sacrifice)was an abomination to God, and the reason He had all the men and women(who had born and sacrificed children)killed. It was the women who were indoctrinating the Israelite men into Baal/Ashteroth worship and human(child)sacrifice. These people were hideously evil. They were Satanic worshipers, and every woman who had born children had offered their first born as a fertility sacrifice to Ashteroth, the Canaanite fertility goddess. She was worshiped for fertility, along with Baal who was worshiped for a plentiful harvest, success in battle, etc.
These tribes were exceedingly evil. Any women who had born at least one child had dutifully, and willingly had it sacrificed to an idol, beginning with sacrificing their first born to Ashteroth. The women were the most guilty in teaching the men(Israelite)whom they were taken by in marriage, and who integrated their religion(Baal & Ashteroth worship)into their own. This brought the wrath of God upon both the Canaanite's and the Israelite peoples.
"Have you allowed all the women to live? Their the ones who followed Balaam's(a false prophet)advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the Lord..." Numbers 31:15(Moses speaking).
You guys are pulling verses out of scripture and judging them/twisting them without having the slightest idea of there contextual significance.
And by the way, it comes as no surprise that Ashteroth is used in incantations by Wicca to this very day.
~777~
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Oct 24, 2010 - 08:55pm PT
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Norton- "The bible was NOT written by man. It was written by God."
It was written by man with the spiritual(indwelt Holy Spirit/God the Holy Spirit)inspiration by God.
"All scripture is given by inspiration by God." Timothy 3:16
It is "God breathed" meaning God the Holy Spirit(spiritual breath/life).
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Oct 24, 2010 - 09:08pm PT
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Skepti- "God says that we should rape murder and torture each other!"
How pathetic an evaluation of the scripture.
First of all, God told no one to rape. You guys are bringing one HELL of a judgment upon your blasphemous souls!!
In the above quotes(Numbers)that you are referring to, He gives an intirely human approach to taking these women(virgins)as wives. First of all, He requires a thirty(30)day's of mourning by the women for their families, before they even began the step's towards marriage...you call this rape??
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Oct 24, 2010 - 09:10pm PT
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Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 24, 2010 - 09:14pm PT
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And ....
Now you're the authority on Christians.
You wouldn't recognize a real christian if you saw one face to face.
Again ....
Money can't buy the help you need ....
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Oct 24, 2010 - 09:15pm PT
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Yes, I love it when atheists start dictating who is or is not a Christian!
Once again Norton, only a minority of Christians maintain these days that the Bible is the literal word of God. Just because fundamentalist Christians are the ones who post here does not change the fact that they are in the minority.
One of my big complaints with the Old Testament is that it blames women for most sin - clearly a male dictated document. Also that it picks and chooses. If foreign women sacrifice children that is evil, if patriarch Abraham goes up on the mountain to sacrifice his only son, that is a sign of great faith that is admirable.
Jesus broke through this one sided patriarchal outlook as he went beyond the bonds of so many other social stereotypes of his day. Unfortunately, Paul reverted right back. I say a true Christian is one who follows Christ and not the Old Testament or the Apostle Paul.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 24, 2010 - 09:15pm PT
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You guys are pulling verses out of scripture and judging them/twisting them without having the slightest idea of there contextual significance. Imagine that! I wonder where they got that idea from?
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Oct 24, 2010 - 09:26pm PT
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Just because fundamentalist Christians are the ones who post here does not change the fact that they are in the minority.
Hmm. I'm thinking the same thing can be said for muslims. Problem is, it's the noisy, obnoxious ones that get all the attention. Just as has been asked of the moderate muslims, why don't moderate christians issue a consensus statement distancing themselves from the lunatic fringe?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Oct 24, 2010 - 09:29pm PT
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They already have. Most of them made statements of doctrine about the Bible being inspired not literal truth, early in the 20th century already.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Oct 24, 2010 - 09:31pm PT
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NOPE
You do NOT get to "cherry pick" which parts of the bible are written by
man and which parts are written by God.
The bible IS the bible. It is the word of God.
Maybe humans sat down and actually wrote it out, BUT they were TOLD by
God what to say.
EVERY WORD. No CHERRY PICKING
God Commands Burning Humans
[The Lord speaking] "The one who has stolen what was set apart for destruction will himself be burned with fire, along with everything he has, for he has broken the covenant of the LORD and has done a horrible thing in Israel." (Joshua 7:15 NLT)
Josiah and Human Sacrifice
At the LORD's command, a man of God from Judah went to Bethel, and he arrived there just as Jeroboam was approaching the altar to offer a sacrifice. Then at the LORD's command, he shouted, "O altar, altar! This is what the LORD says: A child named Josiah will be born into the dynasty of David. On you he will sacrifice the priests from the pagan shrines who come here to burn incense, and human bones will be burned on you." (1 Kings 13:1-2 NLT)
He [Josiah] executed the priests of the pagan shrines on their own altars, and he burned human bones on the altars to desecrate them. Finally, he returned to Jerusalem. King Josiah then issued this order to all the people: "You must celebrate the Passover to the LORD your God, as it is written in the Book of the Covenant." There had not been a Passover celebration like that since the time when the judges ruled in Israel, throughout all the years of the kings of Israel and Judah. This Passover was celebrated to the LORD in Jerusalem during the eighteenth year of King Josiah's reign. Josiah also exterminated the mediums and psychics, the household gods, and every other kind of idol worship, both in Jerusalem and throughout the land of Judah. He did this in obedience to all the laws written in the scroll that Hilkiah the priest had found in the LORD's Temple. Never before had there been a king like Josiah, who turned to the LORD with all his heart and soul and strength, obeying all the laws of Moses. And there has never been a king like him since. (2 Kings 23:20-25 NLT)
Human Sacrifice
Chastised a little, they shall be greatly blessed, because God tried them and found them worthy of himself. As gold in the furnace, he proved them, and as sacrificial offerings he took them to himself. In the time of their visitation they shall shine, and shall dart about as sparks through stubble; (Wisdom 3:5-7 NAB The Book of The Wisdom of Solomon is mostly in Catholic versions of the Bible.)
Child Sacrifice
And this became a hidden trap for mankind, because men, in bondage to misfortune or to royal authority, bestowed on objects of stone or wood the name that ought not to be shared. Afterward it was not enough for them to err about the knowledge of God, but they live in great strife due to ignorance, and they call such great evils peace. For whether they kill children in their initiations, or celebrate secret mysteries, or hold frenzied revels with strange customs… (Wisdom 14:21-23 RSV) The Book of The Wisdom of Solomon is mostly in Catholic versions of the Bible. This passage condemns human sacrifice but acknowledges that it did happen by early God worshipers.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Oct 24, 2010 - 09:38pm PT
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Human sacrifice happened all over the world. Remember those Inca mummies on the tops of Andean peaks? Or all the servants and animals buried alive with their master in China? Confucius by the way, taught against that. Eventually almost all societies gave it up though it seems to be alive and well in some places still.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Oct 24, 2010 - 09:42pm PT
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Skepti!
Sorry, i meant to address Norton not you! Didn't have anything to do with what you posted. "And God says we are to..." Norton posted it...my bad!
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Oct 24, 2010 - 09:42pm PT
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I used to wonder why GOD would have his chosen people wipe out certain races of people also.
777 said a great deal in regards to this.
In addition, PhD Michael Heiser really explains it well.
After the flood there was still Nephilim. And GOD had Israel wipe out the rest of the remaining Nephilim as much as possible. Remember, Nephilim were an abomination. They were a life form that was not meant to be. A hybrid between Fallen Angels and Fallen Man. Read the Book of Enoch to understand how big, strong, smart, and unbelievably evil they were. They were even into cannibalism.
GOD instructed his chosen, the Jews, Israel to wipe them out. Yes, GOD used them as a tool to do so. That is GOD's right and we don't have a right to question him about it.
Who among us can instruct GOD?
Listen to what PhD Michael Heiser has to say:
Mike Heiser Genesis 6 hybrids, Sons of God, Nephilim 1 of 9
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=E3B3C4A6F1D8A9F5
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Oct 24, 2010 - 09:51pm PT
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The murdering of children:
Leviticus 20:9 “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.”
Judges 11:30-40 Jephthah killed his young daughter (his only child) by burning her alive as a burnt sacrifice to the lord for he commanded it.
Psalms 137:8-9 Prayer/song of vengeance “0 daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”
2 Kings 6:28-29 “And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him today, and we will eat my son tomorrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.”
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 “If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.”
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Oct 25, 2010 - 01:51am PT
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I just read Jello's account of climbing Pumori complete with unseen climbing friend and the voice of his human friend calling for help in the middle of the night from miles away. It reminded me again, that many of us have experiences that do not fit neatly into either the materialist or religionist world view but do convince us that there is more to life and consciousness than both suppose.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/498905/A-solid-companion-first-edit
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Abenda
climber
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Oct 25, 2010 - 01:58am PT
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"There is another world, but it is in this one."
W.B.Yeats
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Oct 25, 2010 - 03:38am PT
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Norton- "...burning her alive as a burnt sacrifice to the lord, for he commanded it." (Nortons words)!!
First of all, where did God command him to do such and evil thing?
Answer: He(God)didn't.
This was a rash and unrealistic vow by Jephtath, God had no part in it. Read the story. God forbade child sacrifice, or any type of human sacrifice period.
And there were four types of offerings to the Lord, the Alter of Incense(as a symbol of the peoples prayers going up to God). And three others, the burnt offering being one of them. And it required an unblemished lamb or for those who could not afford such a goat or dove. One of these would be offered in place of his daughter, who was being offered as an undefiled virgen to serve in the house of God(the priests)as a servent, etc. for life. That is why she mourned because she would never mary or "know a man" etc. READ THE STORY!!
Regardless, it served as a warning to people to NOT make vows to God. Even Jesus stated this in the N.T.
And I could go on and on if I had the time, but you would simply go to the atheist threads that have all the out of context quotes, and blindly cut and paste to your hearts content...without a clue!
Clueless Norton! Whenever I here your name now days i am reminded of this quote:
"The Queen of the South will rise up at the judgment with the men of this generation and condemn them; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon's wisdom, and now one greater then Solomon is here." Luke 11:31
The people of America will especially fall under greater judgment because of hearing of Jesus and rejecting Him. With all the church, Bible, and testimony from Believers that is so prevalent in this day and age(just as prophesied). The Word of God is going out to the ends of the earth, via Missionary's and the Internet, etc.
And Norton is here bringing upon himself one Hell of an eternal damnation. Norton leading the charge into Hell. So much hate for the God of the Holy Bible filling your soul, Norton. If you would only take a few seconds and get on your knees and ask God if He was really who Christian's say He is(Jesus)that you ask for forgiveness and ask Him to take over your life!
But you won't because you HATE Him! Plain and simple. And would not want to spend eternity with Him regardless. So He has no choice other than to grant you your wish. Sad but true.
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