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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 16, 2009 - 03:48pm PT
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How would you know?
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 16, 2009 - 03:59pm PT
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In America there is the Supreme court. Although it is ultimately not perfect we must still submit to it's authority whether we agree to the law it handed down or not.
If we reject that law and rebel against it then we are subjected to restraint in some form or other.
Thus authority even on the material level is there.
This material creation is an imperfect reflection of the real although temporary it is not false.
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MH2
climber
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Dec 16, 2009 - 04:09pm PT
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We have different preferences and predilections. Everybody has a different dance with life. Karl
Sure, and after all, that is the interesting part. Anything universal can take care of itself. And how could something universal explain those different preferences, predilections, dances?
It occurs that Karl and I both respond to the appeal of parsimony. He feels that science is unnecessary to such aspects of human experience as love and compassion. I would agree although science goes places you don't expect it to. For my part I feel that hidden or submerged mysteries and spiritual forces are unnecessary to explain the richness of human experience.
We have come a long way, have we not? jstan
Haha. Yes, we have come a long way. DOWNhill. Fortunately there are better examples of recent human accomplishment than we have mustered on this thread. But we haven't come anywhere near Euclid, or Plato, or Thomas Acquinas, for that matter.
Maybe a minority view, but I see evolution as on a downhill course, too, ever since the outstanding achievement of chlorophyll. Hemoglobin is a pale impostor in comparison. The Animalia are poor candidates for enlightenment compared to the plants. Take water, sunlight, and CO2, plus assorted other elements, and make a beautiful relatively peaceful organic structure. We should allow a few bees and other insects in our Garden of Eden, too.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 16, 2009 - 04:11pm PT
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Citizens in the United States agree SCOTUS is authoritative and there is only one SCOTUS in the phone book. A quick glance in that phonebook will also show U.S. citizens do not, in any way, agree on which god or interpretation of 'god' is similarly authoritative.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 16, 2009 - 04:16pm PT
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Then you must make full understanding of what "God" really is before you speak.
It may take you many many lifetimes, although you reject that also.
Until then you are a mental speculator with no real knowledge on that subject matter.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 16, 2009 - 04:18pm PT
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He feels that science is unnecessary to such aspects of human experience as love and compassion.
I would suggest god, religion, and science are completely unnecessary and irrelevant to love and compassion beyond after-the-fact supposition.
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Dec 16, 2009 - 04:20pm PT
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You're whole arguments are strictly based on pure guessing and speculations compounded by your veiled biases, as you really have no actual knowledge pertaining to this.
And yours is different how?
edit: oh... wait... your bias isn't veiled.... my bad. Carry on....
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 16, 2009 - 04:26pm PT
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Then you must make full understanding of what "God" really is before you speak.
Will the circle, be unbroken? By and by lord, by and by...
That olde circular logic: Who's god, who's scripture, who's discipline? The Vedas, the Bible, Summerian tablets, Dianetics? That's right, it's all in the perspective of your belief! Perfect.
Will the circle, be unbroken? By and by lord, by and by...
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 16, 2009 - 04:37pm PT
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But you do nothing.
You only rant .....
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 16, 2009 - 04:49pm PT
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Another stupid projectionist rant with no substance.
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Norton
Social climber
the Middle Class
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2009 - 05:19pm PT
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And that ONE man is:
THE man, Charles Darwin
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 16, 2009 - 07:26pm PT
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"God" is an English word, Jesus is a Greek work. The Apostles and their Master didn't use either word.
"Allah" means "God" in Arabic. I'd be surprised if Arabic speaking Christians didn't use that word for God when they pray.
In India, the Christians call Jesus "Isa" (means Lord)
There is no doubt the Christian God and Jewish God are one because, after all, Jesus was a Jew.
Jesus is also the #2 prophet in Islam so Islam firmly believes they are praying to the same God as Christians are.
You can say any religion that believes there is only one ultimate God (and much of even Hinduism would accept this) then we're all praying to the same God, the only question is who is most and least misguided about it. Folks can argue about how far off the mark you can be without being ignored by God.
Personally, I think even unbelievers are partaking in God and their own Spirit every day all the time without being intellectually aware of it. The Spirit lights up our awareness.
Folks who fight saying only their sect of their religion is recognized by God, are saying more about themselves than about God. If such were true, one sect of one religion would be obviously and manifestly more blessed than the others and their followers would be obviously much more full of Love and Charity than others.
Obviously, that ain't happening
Peace
karl
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Dec 16, 2009 - 08:26pm PT
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First everything that is was made by God! Man used those things to make man made things.
However the crux is how to approach God? Well for me the Bible answers that completely, through Jesus!
If I were God I would do it differently, but good thing I'm not!
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jstan
climber
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Dec 16, 2009 - 08:52pm PT
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The really amazing thing is that an argument between two groups, each claiming to be the only true shamans in a situation where no data is ever brought into play
can go on for thousands of years.
Just the fact there has been no improvement in 2000 years tells a discerning person nothing of substance is at issue.
Literally incredible.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 16, 2009 - 09:04pm PT
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Haven't looked at the thread in a day or so, and I have to admit when I read the Religions of the World sign posted by Norton, it completely caught me off guard and I laughed hysterically. Too funny.
Anyway, I'm glad we can all talk about really deep issues and ideas. It is a real learning experience. I enjoy it. I've learned some important things, and reading all the scripture posted is like a thunder shower in a thirsty desert.
In the end I believe in Jesus, and I am greatful for his grace. I have real hope for the future.
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Norton
Social climber
the Middle Class
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2009 - 09:10pm PT
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Back by popular demand!!!
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jstan
climber
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Dec 16, 2009 - 09:32pm PT
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The only question I have for Bierstadt is
Where the heck is the green flash?
And, as usual,
Norton has nailed it.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Dec 16, 2009 - 09:55pm PT
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"Slowly inching his segmented exoskeleton across the sea floor, a local marine arthropod, class Trilobita, reported that Earth's natural evolution was 'progressing quite nicely.'"
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/evolution_going_great_reports
"It's a wonderful time to be alive," said the tri-lobed creature, its protruding feelers and antennules twitching spasmodically with anticipation. "To be born during this, the Cambrian Explosion—why, I couldn't imagine a better period, really. It's all happening right now!"
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 16, 2009 - 09:58pm PT
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Karl -- "Personally, I think even unbelievers are partaking in God and their own Spirit every day all the time without being intellectually aware of it."
This is actually a bonafide fact that's completely true ......
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dec 16, 2009 - 10:11pm PT
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God makes it rain on the just and the unjust. He gives us all what we need whether we acknowledge him or not. He loves us and wishes to have a relationship with us. GOD's love is perfect. If we could all just be like GOD.
BASE104,
I'm happy your mother is feeling better and on the recovery. Prayer always helps. He wants to hear from us. We'll keep praying for a full recovery.
God works in mysterious ways. Sometimes he comes into our lives when we don't expect it and we call out to him in all honesty when we need him the most and we have no where else to turn. It is like a hand from heaven that catches us just the moment we are gonna fall to our spirtual death. GOD is there. We just have to reach out and grab ahold of his hand.
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