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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jan 25, 2018 - 08:08am PT
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Jody, the Republicans want to gut your pension. They will, too. It's only a matter of time. They've managed to turn everyday working Americans against the idea of pensions for everyday working Americans. Say what you will, the right wing is brilliant in that regard.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jan 25, 2018 - 08:11am PT
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Everything the Republicans do is scam against the middle class
So it's not news that Jody has fallen for the con job,
Trickle down has one final outcome, increasing wealth inequality
you lose while they gain, it's slow and subversive
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jan 25, 2018 - 08:20am PT
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Jody stated:
When the Democrats were in the WH, they refused to release the reserves that each department had so the shutdown would be disruptive
'
the last shutdown was in 2013 when your Republicans controlled the House and thereby all government spending, your above statement makes no sense at all, prove it
prove it Jody, show your credible sources, prove you are not lying
also Jody, for the now 5th time request prove your statement that
"the Dems support and people and countries that support Sharia Law"
prove it, Jody
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_government_shutdown_of_2013
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 25, 2018 - 08:37am PT
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Jody, the Republicans want to gut your pension.
I think it is more accurate to say they want pension obligations brought under control.
The Democrats’ poster chile for outta control pensions, among other things, is Illinois,
which put the ‘b’ in bankrupt.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jan 25, 2018 - 08:41am PT
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jan 25, 2018 - 10:21am PT
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I think it is more accurate to say they want pension obligations brought under control.
You say potato, I say potahto.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 25, 2018 - 10:32am PT
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Well, Gary, at least you are civil about it. But who can deny the extreme fiscal recklessness of
the myriad city, county, and states who have put their citizenry under the cloud of roughly
$16 TRILLION in questionably funded pensions that likely will engender yuge new taxes and/or bond issues?
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John M
climber
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Jan 25, 2018 - 10:40am PT
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I think it is more accurate to say they want pension obligations brought under control.
You say potato, I say potahto.
I would agree that some want pension obligations brought under control. Yet others seem to want them done away with entirely. The problem is that the rhetoric they put out demonizes people with pensions and demonizes government and thus it becomes very difficult to have any reasonable discussion. Both sides do this.
Liberals "only" want to spend.
Conservatives are "all" war mongers.
Etc..
When we resort to these kinds of characterizations, then conversation becomes contentious and little to no progress is made.
I have no problem paring down many government programs, though really I would like the push to be towards wiser leadership. But at this point, our country has become so contentious that the people with wisdom and discernment and who are able to make compromises, don't want leadership positions. So we end up with snakes in the grass leading our country. And then programs become insane and then people want to do away with the program, rather then fixing it.
For instance, I like having clean water and clean air, and safe food to drink and safe buildings, but the departments who are supposed to work to protect those things have created some poor situations, and so lots of people don;t trust them so that they then want to cut them, rather then attempt to fix them.
The solution is going to be a spiritual one, but our country is not ready for that. So we are in for rough times ahead.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jan 25, 2018 - 10:51am PT
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Well, Gary, at least you are civil about it. But who can deny the extreme fiscal recklessness of
the myriad city, county, and states who have put their citizenry under the cloud of roughly
$16 TRILLION in questionably funded pensions that likely will engender yuge new taxes and/or bond issues?
If you look into the figures, you'll see that the biggest pensions are going to politcos, like Ratso Rizzo. Until he got busted, he was in line for over half a million per year in pensions. Or America's sheriff from Orange County Mike Carona. After that crook got out of the federal pen he started getting his $215,000 per year pension.
But who is going to get their pension whacked? The state highway maintenance worker who after 30 years was in line to make $1400 per month.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jan 25, 2018 - 11:20am PT
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It seems there is a general epidemic of politicians supporting things that give immediate political benefit, things that people say they want, while not having to make the hard financial decisions of what else to give up to get it. It all gets kicked down the road to a general mixed up indebtedness and everyone can wipe there hands saying "yeah it's a problem, but it's not my fault." It's sort of like families that treat a credit card like money in their pocket.
Anyone with a backbone to make tough trade-offs will get voted out.
That said, I'm not a "government spending is bad" dogmatic person. I very much believe in using the government to manage spending for services that benefit society when an immediate profit motive will not trigger private industry to handle it. That might lead to quite a lot of government spending, but in the end there does have to be fiscal responsibility to work within sane parameters. A budget doesn't always have to be balanced in a given year if a chunk of that spending will lead to future growth of tax revenues (either through job creation or technology-based cost reductions or efficiencies), which will bring a future balance, or avert some short-term disaster. A balanced budget is one of a government's goals, but not necessarily the most important one in any given year.
I would aggressively explore reducing future pension commitments, but I would not cut existing commitments. People build their lives around those commitments, and have very few options when the commitments are not met.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jan 25, 2018 - 12:29pm PT
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Jody, I think the point that you are not latching onto, is that your ability to make money and have a good life is because of a fabric of society woven together from many pieces that are paid for by government services. Some are easy to see an immediate value for, such as roads and defense from international armies. Others are more difficult because they relate to the sociopath-economic wellbeing of a majority of citizens, a mechanism for the marginalized members of our society to be managed in some fashion, and in general to promote a law-abiding society (which requires fewer people to be living in desperation where they disregard laws and rights of others, and it requires more educated people to stand up against the rising tide of robber-barrons that take advantage of ignorant (not necessarily stupid) people).
The steel in your guns, and the machining tools to make them, and the oil to lubricate them, and all the things in your comfortable life were created at a price you can afford in part because of the good things of capitalism and greed, but also in part because of the counterbalancing forces of unions and government regulations that created a middle class that created a market for luxury items you enjoy at a modest price. The world is interconnected and interdependent, and the more we try to pretend that our personal success is the result of our own industry without recognizing the contributions of others, the more our guiding map diverges from reality and creates a gap that will some day be closed in a violent manner.
Relying on small government and personal magnanimity for taking care of the struggling/incompetent members of society isn’t enough. But we all have our views, and can talk around them for ages without shifting perspectives. Sometimes I forget and still try.
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Pennsylenvy
Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
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Jan 25, 2018 - 12:35pm PT
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^^^^^^^ x one thousand
edit : nut again .....You could flop at my place Friday eve if that need arises. I'm 7 miles south of I-40
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John M
climber
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Jan 25, 2018 - 12:43pm PT
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BTW, way to address the content of my post.
you didn't acknowledge my last post where I clearly stated that I didn't mind trimming things besides the military. But if we are going to trim things then should include the military. So why should anyone pay attention to what you say?
Edit: great post nutagain
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jan 25, 2018 - 12:56pm PT
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I do thank the DEMOCRATIC governor...
Don't be so fast, Jody.
California Governor Jerry Brown said legal rulings may clear the way for making cuts to public pension benefits, which would go against long-standing assumptions and potentially provide financial relief to the state and its local governments.
Brown said he has a "hunch" the courts would "modify" the so-called California rule, which holds that benefits promised to public employees can’t be rolled back. The state’s Supreme Court is set to hear a case in which lower courts ruled that reductions to pensions are permissible if the payments remain “reasonable” for workers.
"There is more flexibility than there is currently assumed by those who discuss the California rule,” Brown said during a briefing on the budget in Sacramento. He said that in the next recession, the governor “will have the option of considering pension cutbacks for the first time.” https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-10/california-s-brown-raises-prospect-of-pension-cuts-in-downturn
Please note that when the judges strike down pension benefits, they exempt themselves from those cuts.
The case that could weaken the California Rule stems from a “pension reform” law state legislators passed in 2012.
The law cut pensions and raised the retirement ages for new government employees and banned “pension spiking” for existing workers.
Judges, who generally have benefited from past public pension rulings, were exempted.
“They stuck it to pretty much everybody except the judges,” said Gregg McLean Adam, who is representing unions in the case. http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-pension-legal/
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Jan 25, 2018 - 02:52pm PT
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Jody, for the now 5th time request prove your statement that
"the Dems support and people and countries that support Sharia Law"
prove it, Jody, in detail and with credible source links to show how you made this up and lied
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John M
climber
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Jan 25, 2018 - 03:15pm PT
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3. Socialist Sponging off working people
Its not socialism to work for the government.
I don't believe that Jody is lazy. He does in my opinion behave in ways that are antithetical to being a Christian, but I will leave that one.
I wish that everyone would try a little more to deal with the issues, rather then the person. Otherwise we will just keep going round and round.
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Trouble
climber
Fresno, CA
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Jan 25, 2018 - 03:24pm PT
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These forums are god damn echo chambers. Everybody is always trying to be the benevolent moral authority on every subject by regurgitating last nights CNN segment.
In 2020 Trump will win...again. Get over it.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jan 25, 2018 - 03:26pm PT
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John M! Re your thoughts:
Otherwise we will just keep going round and round.
I thought that was the nature of political threads on ST, until the name-calling gets ugly & the thread gets nuked by ST management.
Then someone who appears to be bored & has an axe to grind, starts a new one.
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John M
climber
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Jan 25, 2018 - 03:35pm PT
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Fritz,
Its currently the nature of America.. Thats too bad. It means we have some more ugliness to go through as a country.
Change begins at home. It begins in the heart. Thats part of what I meant about change requiring a spiritual impetus. Thats one of the things Jesus was teaching. Another is love your neighbor as yourself. We don't appear to do a very good job of loving ourselves, so its not a surprise that we don't really love our neighbors. When I say "we", I don't just mean the taco, but the taco is a microcosm of America. The trolls rule the house.
Edit: some will say that they love themselves, but is a person really loving themselves if they hate on their neighbor, thus putting themselves in a neighborhood of hate.
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