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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 6, 2017 - 07:33pm PT
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I know, people are going to say this is a climber's forum, people are going to say it is like flogging a dead horse, some people may say I am stooopid.
But as I look at the headlines over the past months, who dominates? The 'reality' TV guy. (And I am a very experienced media person, a journalist for some 44 years in five countries, working on nationals and TV, but then I am just "fake news" to some of you, All I can say is go fly a kite, or jump in a lake).
Like him or loathe him, he is the news. And he must love it.
And this person may to some extent, determine our futures.
And Donald is loving it. Even if he falls, or fails.
And Putin is smiling. Collusion or not, Russia wins.
Think about it and then spray.
EDIT
And for those whose parents fled the post Germany Allied administration because their parents were active Nazi member party supporters, America welcomed some of you, but for some, couldn't Brazil or Argentina been better? There is enough hatred in the US without you people calling us stoopid.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Patrick, this is a climber's forum. I think you may LIKE flogging a dead horse.
But who am I to judge anyone, really, even though I judge them when I don't vote for them.
I sure never voted for this dingaling.
And you are not stooopid.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2017 - 08:12pm PT
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Mouse, no, I do not like flogging a dead horse.
But unless this is not kept in the "public eye", unless it is let to slide under the stealth, read slime, then yes, maybe the dead beast needs to be flogged, because perhaps it is not dead.
Do you understand that?
I may not live in the US, but as an American, I feel its repercussions.
EDIT
Are some of you Trump supporters happy? He boasts (what doesn't he) of some great legislative achievements.
What are they? Finally, a tax bill that will help all of Americans, but not him? Donald claims he is going to lose. Well, I find that difficult to believe, for a guy who claims he does not pay taxes and when he does (arm twisting) it is for the better of…
a) the nation and people
b) his children
c) himself
or his Russian 'bank' rollers (look it up, it is there).
So now, is this dead horse worth flogging? Does it perchance have life in it?
It is your future. You decide.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2017 - 08:29pm PT
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And as cute and perhaps as true as they are, memes do not cut it. Reasonable discourse, now that I can deal with.
And in the previous years I have made an ass of myself on this forum. I have been abusive to some, apologies, perhaps one glass of wine too many, no excuse though.
I start a sincere thread about Mount Rainier, and the usual jokers and jerk offs want their say, their pathetic input. Okay I expected that, knowing this forum since 2005. Does it bother me? Well, it must, as I bring it up, but only like a pimple on the face (or butt). It is annoying, but just that.
Cheers
Patrick
NB You know where you can reach me.
EDIT
Trump sucks. But I think most of you, even his supporters, know that. The bigger question is: How in the world did the US get to this point? There are points, milestones I suppose, that can lead to that, we are not the diverse nation as some of suppose.
Since the beginning of this 'great' nation, we have not been so great. I have mentioned it before, and been ridiculed on this forum, about my family's history. Sawyers stepped forth in 1640, the second signatory to the Declaration, yep, Bartletts are in my tree.
Did we kill the 'red man' as we crossed the plains? I do not know.
I know that Samuel Clemens is a distant relative (he took his cousin's name Sawyer for is semi-autobriography, we were in St Joe Missouri before hitting the Oregon Trail). Both of my grandfathers were well-respected judges (West Virginia and Washington state).
Papa Casey has a statue in Pittsburgh, PA, Grandpa Sawyer was a captain the Rough Riders, and his friend Teddy made him Postmaster General of Washington state (nepotism I suppose).
I have laid this out before and I have been ridiculed on this forum. But those are my stats. So, while I may live abroad, I watch and I care about my country.
I will discuss anything with anybody, if it is a reasonable discourse. Just don't catch me when I have I had a couple of glasses of wine. then I may be an ass.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Patrick, shouldn't you be practicing your crevasse rescue skills? You know.... for something big and icy in the Cascades.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2017 - 09:03pm PT
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Patrick, shouldn't you be practicing your crevasse rescue skills? You know.... for something big and icy in the Cascades.
Fear, if I make it to the family reunion, Rainier is off the schedule. I think Donini's suggestion of Mount Stuart is more in line with what I can do, as far as gear (I have the shoes, rope, rack, no partner though, and free soloing is best left to those who can, but I have free soloed at that level, a long time ago in a galaxy far away).
More important, the crevasses of a family reunion to be negotiated.
Cheers fears
Paddy
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Patrick, lad, of course I understand what you say. Please check the last several days worth of my Flames thread and you will see what's there and how dedicated I and others posting there are tp this wannabe president's eventual fall. He and his whole gang are reminiscent of a bad pope, say John XXIII the first, not Angelo Roncalli, of course, but the one deposed in the fifteenth century.
His presence on the scene is indicative of a sickness here and we Americans are, in general, aware, embarrassed, and not happy in general, with some exceptions...the Nazi types you mentioned earlier.
My feelings are that the younger generation is not aware enough but then I would not be surprised if I were wrong. I have little contact with the so-called Snowflake Generation, the ones who will vote for the first time in the next presidential election.
I can do discourse. Try me.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2017 - 09:24pm PT
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Mouse, I have never had any inclination to doubt you, as you are genuine, I see that in your previous posts over the years.
But Merced? My mother was suckered into buying land in Atwater, when she could had bought land in Ygnacio Valley (Walnut Creek, where I was born). A real estate gold mine.
Atwater? Does it still exists? hah hah, just joking.
My mother was a dentist, a widow, with four children, she was a sucker. She never remarried after dad's death. She never learned, as she spoiled all of us. Me, the youngest, what climbing gear I wanted, she bought. Palisades School of Mountaineering (I want you to be taught properly), flying lessons, at first but then too "expensive" unless "you are going to be a pilot".
Everybody, but everybody, neighbors, friends they loved my mom.
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Karkoekstan, Former USSR
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Trump Recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's Capital and Orders US
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2017 - 10:22pm PT
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The point I am I trying to make is…
What good is our country if we fall into a sort of totalitarianism, where people become afraid of others because the "leaders" deem it so?
Are we bound to hysteria? Jody, you are just one of the most obvious ones, sorry to single you out but your "us against them mentality will not work. And I could add all the other conservative, and yes some liberals on this forum.
It is about us against ourselves.
We are a diverse nation, a diverse world, a planet, unless I am mistaken and their are "aliens", we are this world.
Nothing new here, nothing that has not said before, but something to always remind us of who we are.
A reminder of humanity.
Take your guns, hunt, I will not kill but I will gladly eat elk meat. I have no problems with being a carnivore, I do have some problems with guns.
Tax my ass on a properly, if said property is a burden on the community.
Do we let people starve in the streets and freeze under bridges?
what sort of society, world, is that?
I have no problem with billionaires, as such, unless they deny the people who put them there.
I do have a problem with greed, when is enough an enough?
When you step over the corpses of fellow humans, with a smile on your face, what are you?
EDIT
I can be an hypocrite in some ways, I can even contradict myself in minor ways, I recognize that. I am human. But I do try my best to be sincere. Sometimes I fail, and when I do, I look in the mirror and ask,"what could I have done differently?"
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Lots of people have strange views/ideas about the Central Valley and Merced, Patrick. Your mother was not well-advised in her decision, unfortunately. She is not the only one to lose out on investing here...witness the recession that lowered real estate values several years ago.
But town by town up and down this valley of tule fog and exhaust fumes, it is the same. Lump Atwater in with Merced, that's fine. I'm happy here, as happy as I've been elsewhere with the exception of Yosemite Valley and that is all that really matters to me.
Trump's influence won't last forever, just as the recent recession did not. Things are constantly improving in one way while degenerating in others, like always.
What is important is to continually seek to improve yourself and those in your immediate circle, but not at the expense of others. Avarice and greed stand out and are newsworthy, but the everyday life of the humble worker bees continues, provided that the queen is healthy.
I wish sincerely that a sense of peace will come to you eventually, Patrick. You seem changed from your morose self of several months ago, and this makes me happy. It is all we are called to do by the better side of our humanity: provide some measure of happiness for our fellows.
Merry Christmas. Stay off the sauce.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2017 - 11:03pm PT
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And if I post twice, I may be accused of chain posting, as one person put it.
I sit here, trying to put a second draft on a novel and I get, frustrated. I hit a blank wall.
So I lash out on the one forum I feel comfortable on.
There is no climbing about, that eases frustrations in a way. To feel the rock on the hands or the crunch of ice.
So I sit here on a very cold yet clear Irish morning at 7am. No wiser, no better, no wealthier, that I was last night.
But I know, I can always make a fool of myself on the Taco Stand. Been doing it for over a decade. A constant in life. It helps, hah hah.
Best wishes to all.
Patrick
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2017 - 11:21pm PT
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Mouse, I fell in love (briefly) with a gal from Atwater (It was in Yosemite Valley, she was 16, I was 17, and she was really cute, but… nothing happened, we flirted, still)
Atwater holds a place in my heart. Just.
EDIT
Trevino, that was her name, her uncle was the golfer, gawd after all of these years, I never even thought about her. Until now.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 7, 2017 - 01:56am PT
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Don't really know if the family is the same as your old flame's from Atwater.
Yeah, neither do I. I always thought Trevino was Italian in origin. Doesn't matter. Once you are an American, it is difficult going back, hah hah
That said, Donald Trump makes me wish like I was from Mars. The guy is a total jerk off, but he has fooled enough people. How do these ass wipes get away with it? He screws companies, he screws contractors and sub-contractors. He screws suppliers, he screws his own shareholders. He screws the United States of America ("I am smart, I do not pay taxes"). He boasts about sexually assaulting women ("grab them by the pussy".*)
And he gets away with it. He is not as dumb as he looks apparently.
He has used Chinese steel in his projects in the US, he and his daughter use "slave" labour to produce their goods (ties and such) in foreign countries, not the good ole USA. He has cheated so many people, if all the many (thousands?) of lawsuits claim, and he comes out smelling like an orange blossom.
The guy is an idiot, I see him as an idiot savant. But his money buys him good lawyers, and we all know, a good lawyer can work wonders, as well as good accountants.
Sad but true. He seems to love screwing people. Next for a butt ream (apologies for the vulgarity)? Sheep and the CHP guy who supported Cruz, and the neo-Nazi guy whose parents fled Germany to avoid prosecution. He will try and screw them too. Hey SAR guy, your beloved POTUS. just embraced your hated Israel.
Which leaves me to a sort of conundrum. If Trump hates "niggers" and Muslims, like many of his base apparently (Make America White Again), how does his embracing the Israeli state sit with his anti-Jew supporters? Where does one reconcile this stuff? Weird.
Totally weird.
Go figure.
* And after he acknowledges he said "grab them by the pussy", and half-heartedly apologizing, now he claims he never said those words. It was fake news. The fake news (read MSM) that faked that tape (which he had already claimed was his voice, but now crawling back into his rat hole).
Yes, this forum needs to have threads such as this, whether I start them or somebody else does. At this point, it is no longer about climbing.
How can you turn a blind eye? For me, it is easy, I live in another country, and will be getting dual citizenship, so Trumps' domestic disasters will have little effect (and affect, I know the difference) upon me.
But I pity those who will be affected. And I worry about the US environment. In part, I worry for most Supertopians. Enjoy your tax sunset.
I do worry. The USA is my country of birth and my many forefathers and foremothers. The damage that Trump and his cohort are doing will take a generation, if not more, to correct.
Just watch and see. For those of my age (61, but a spry 101 is my goal, why not, I live sensibly, sort of), us baby boomers, we will live to see the Trump disaster, but what about down the road and the long-term?
Will your grandchildren be happy, and safe? Will they breathe fresh air, walk on clean beaches, wander in pristine hills?
Will they have that chance? Do you care about your children and their kids?
TRUMP MAY "WIN", BUT YOU WILL LOSE. Just wait and see.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Trump is only "winning" in the sense that Charlie Sheen was #winning! a few years ago, except that Trump is drunk on power, not cocaine.
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dirtbag
climber
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He seems like a miserable sob to me. I can’t imagine he likes any of this very much.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Patrick: Did we kill the 'red man' as we crossed the plains? I do not know.
Sure you do. It might simply be too painful to admit it.
Every culture has its own mythological archetype that it thinks it embodies. The U.S.’s might be democratic freedom, enterprise, and the rugged individualist. But, was it ever that way?
Honore de Balzac purportedly claimed, “behind every great fortune there is a crime.”
Recently, the irishman, pop star Bono was interviewed by a member of the Good Morning Football show on the NFL Network cable channel and said that America is the greatest invention of all time.
Every myth / image that’s held dear appears to have at least two sides to it. (1) The myth / image is an illusion. It just doesn’t really exist in practice—only in theory. (2) Images / myths are symbolic (non-verbal) expressions from a transcendent center of Man. They arise from the unconscious of individuals, from the experiences / histories of cultures, and from the species.
When we are young, we are idealistic and romantic. Toward our middle years, we see things a bit more comically and tragically. In our older age, we may finally come to understand and even embrace irony.
Be well.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California, now Ireland
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 7, 2017 - 10:08am PT
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MikeL, I suppose you are right in that my familial predecessors probably did participate in some atrocities as they pursued Manifest Destiny.
And I hate ironing. I will never embrace it.
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