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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 14, 2015 - 07:14am PT
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"All that matters is that you are alive....
You are alive, Captain."
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Nov 14, 2015 - 07:48am PT
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The ACA was supposed to have the best cost control system ever devised: Free Market Competition.
A Public Option.
The Private insurance companies would have to lower their prices to compete with a single payer system. You want better Insurance than Medicare? Then you can buy any plan you want, all options are available.
BUT, the 60th Senator needed to vote for the ACA was Joe Lieberman (d#@&%e), who was Not a Democrat, he was an Independent from Delaware. He said he would not vote for it Unless the public option was eliminated. He was also bought off by the big Delaware insurance Companies. It was Him alone that screwed it up for everyone.
There were only 58 Democratic Senators for the 27 working days when we had a filibuster proof majority, the other 2 were Independents.
So to say that it's Obama's fault that the ACA doesn't have cost controls is just another lie.
it was conservatives that wrote the bill, and conservatives that screwed it up, and conservatives that will still not take any action to implement cost controls
So if you don't like ObamaCare, you should focus your blame where the blame resides, on the Backs of the Republican Party that wouldn't come to rescue and vote for the bill with cost controls and a public option. They abandoned the people for political capital and cash.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Nov 14, 2015 - 08:03am PT
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The ACA was supposed to have the best cost control system ever devised
world class web site
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 14, 2015 - 08:54am PT
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pyro posted world class web site
It was busted. It got fixed. Sebelius got canned. Millions of people signed up for health insurance. Health plans have proliferated. Is this really the best you've got?
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Jorroh
climber
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Nov 14, 2015 - 09:50am PT
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Not that it makes much difference Craig, but Connecticut
..where many of the big insurance companies are based.
Classic example of Senator supporting the narrow interests of a few of his biggest donors, as opposed to the best interests of the people of America.
The arguments against a public option where contradictory and, generally, incredibly lame.
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Norton
Social climber
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Nov 14, 2015 - 10:01am PT
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public option, you must mean the briefly discussed idea of creating a single payor
being the government program like Medicare that was rejected as unfeasible during the early drafting of the ACA?
even if such a program were actually added the mix it is very unlikely that it could have competed successfully against all the private plans as the entire concept of the ACA is to open private insurance markets across state lines
but consider this, the "public option" IS very much a huge part of the ACA
and that is the expansion of Medicaid to ten of millions of lower income Americans
this is single payer government insurance in its purest form, already in place
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 14, 2015 - 11:20am PT
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Norton posted public option, you must mean the briefly discussed idea of creating a single payor
being the government program like Medicare that was rejected as unfeasible during the early drafting of the ACA?
There was an extensively discussed public option that would have been available on all the exchanges but got torched by Lieberman. Single payer is politically unfeasible, not technically unfeasible.
Norton continued but consider this, the "public option" IS very much a huge part of the ACA
and that is the expansion of Medicaid to ten of millions of lower income Americans
this is single payer government insurance in its purest form, already in place
That is sort of true, except that states control Medicaid and it is only available to a certain class of Americans whereas a public option would have been available to everyone.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Nov 14, 2015 - 01:41pm PT
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Is this really the best you've got?
Um....no
Hidesert
I think you should have title this thread
"Desert DJ learning politics appreciation thread".. lol
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 15, 2015 - 06:54am PT
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The Dems scheduled their debate for a time when nobody would watch but thanks to the interwebs you can watch it anyway. Dickerson appears to be doing a great job but why they decided to fill 1/3 of the screen with garbage Twitter graphs I do not know:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Nov 15, 2015 - 07:29am PT
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My grades:
O'Malley. B+
Sanders. B
Clinton. B-
Doubt it will change the race much. Lots of substantive exchanges and well moderated. I though Hillary was off her game, perhaps sitting on her lead and over-cautious. She's at her best when she's on offense. The 9/11, Wall St. answer was inartful.
Debates are live action, even the smartest people can make a mistake. Not easy stuff. It's good prep for the general election race and I expect Hillary to learn from last night.
Any of the 3 would make a better choice than the best of the GOP lot, however.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 15, 2015 - 07:37am PT
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I think Sanders continues to make it clear he doesn't actually want to be president, he wants to address economic inequality and is using a presidential campaign to achieve it. He couldn't have pivoted from Paris to economics any faster than he did. Axelrod had a good observation that Clinton appeared to be straddling being a candidate and being responsible potential president which I think obviously stifles her responses a bit. Clinton's responses about Paris and ISIL were pretty bad. I expected better.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Nov 15, 2015 - 07:41am PT
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Can't disagree. I caught Axelrod's comment, as well. The point being president's have to use more cautious language than a candidate.
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Norton
Social climber
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Nov 15, 2015 - 07:50am PT
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bookmark this page
http://www.predictwise.com/
PredictWise polls are a cutting-edge methodology that allow us to quickly and repeatedly aggregate the expectations of individuals to create predictions that have been empirically proven to be more accurate than traditional polling methods or available prediction markets.
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Norton
Social climber
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Nov 15, 2015 - 07:58am PT
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also
keep an eye on the Iowa Electronic Market and Intrade
real people betting their own money on everything including politics
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Nov 15, 2015 - 08:11am PT
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nice debate!?!
don't mention the 15dollar an hour increase Jeeze!
they looked and were mad at each other..
Hillary looked really angry when wall street was mentioned..
love the live twitter feeds gets Hillary to speak up instead of avoiding the question..
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 15, 2015 - 09:05am PT
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I'm pretty sure it was the moderator, John Dickerson, who did that, pyro. I wonder why Hillary didn't call him out for his "gotcha" questions?
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired Climber
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Nov 15, 2015 - 09:40am PT
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Actually, Sanders scored a few points with me, and I thought OMalley did ok.
Of the two debates this week, it was nice to see one that was civil.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 15, 2015 - 02:56pm PT
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Agreed. I'm not saying that Sanders doesn't have some good positions or isn't a strong voice for his cause, I'm just saying that his cause is far too narrow for the presidency.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Nov 15, 2015 - 02:59pm PT
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Norton, Intrade shut down.
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