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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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They're simply peddling religion. Not a personal conviction of any kind, just a standard set up same-for-all religion.
It's good business and tax free for each hooked they can catch. They're tradesmen, merchants for churches.
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jstan
climber
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It feels like they're trolls, a few people working in callcenter environments set up to react to certain keywords.
The fascination we all have with things and expressions that evidence originality, like this one from Lolli. may be a product of human adaptability. The trait that allowed the few hundred homo sapiens who survived the climate changes of some 100,000 years ago, to go on and do all that has been done.
If that same trait exists among the religiously inclined, one has to conclude that had Jesus or Mohammed never lived at all, the believers would be out there right now, trying to create them. Perhaps both of these prophets are just such creations anyway. Religion is an expression of the believer and a creation by the believer.
God absolutely must be all powerful if a believer suffers from a sense of helplessness. They create someone who does not suffer from their own affliction. (Those who do not feel god must be all-powerful, are religious for other reasons.) The personal testimonies and histories we have seen here on ST speak very directly to this need for power. (Sometimes just the power to control one's self.) This is why religion is perhaps the most aggressive and pitiless field of human endeavor. It has to be so if it is to project the desired sense of absolute power.
Go-bee's public account of how he heard god speaking to him when he was in mortal terror speaks further, to the basic response coming from within himself. When he felt threatened he did an obvious thing. He ran away. Who wouldn't have? Well, another might just as easily have done another equally obvious thing. He might have gathered together the others who were there, and have confronted the adult. Saying, "you cannot hurt us all. Most of us will get away and we will bring back good people who will treat you as you need to be treated. So either get out of our way or let's get this on."
When it comes to specific human responses there is no obvious correction that can be taken. There are corrections but they all are unobvious, are very difficult, and uncertain of success.
It seems to me, this is why the problem is of long standing.
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Great post, Lolli! It's a great question for the believers, but they don't seem to take it as seriously as they should. I'm not a believer myself, hell, I'm the Dark Wizard, though I went to church a lot as a kid. The only churches I've been to in California are Cathedral Peak and once in Fresno for a wedding...
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WBraun
climber
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Not a personal conviction of any kind, just a standard set up same-for-all religion.
Just plain licking the outside of the jar will always result in stupid mental speculative conclusions like this ......
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luggi
Trad climber
from the backseat of Jake& Elwood Blues car
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Billy Graham once stated that if there ever was a country that would go to hell because of their religion it would be the United States of America. Why would a man who loves God before everything else make a statement like that?
Lolli there is a distinction between religion and christianity.
I am most likely more like you and others then you think. I am just providing another perspective and information.
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labrat
Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
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Apr 17, 2012 - 04:05pm PT
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Onsite solo! Chills me to the bone just thinking about it....
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 26, 2012 - 05:26pm PT
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I heard he's still an Atheist.
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go-B
climber
Habakkuk 3:19 Sozo
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Apr 28, 2012 - 09:58am PT
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Nice try!
Deuteronomy 10:14 To the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Apr 28, 2012 - 01:59pm PT
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Apr 8, 2012 - 01:47am PT
Klimmer is real, he's just in a crisis, but I somehow doubt go-b, truthdweller, luggi et al are.
It feels like they're trolls, a few people working in callcenter environments set up to react to certain keywords. What do we know of them as persons? Nothing. They disclose nothing personal, it's pure marketing. They're simply peddling religion. Not a personal conviction of any kind, just a standard set up same-for-all religion.
It's good business and tax free for each hooked they can catch. They're tradesmen, merchants for churches.
...I wonder if they believe themselves? It's like they had to put in a clause in contracts that they had to use that shampoo themselves too...
Lolli,
They're all real despite my crisis (Lol). I will survive GOD willing. Thanks for your care and concern (sarcasm).
Personally, I like the approach that go-B and Truthdweller et al. take. Just quote the pure word of GOD. It pierces and enters into the heart like nothing else can. GOD's words are powerful. They work like nothing else can. They are living words. They will change you one way or another. You'll either respond positively to his words and love them, or you will respond negatively to his words and hate them, because they convict.
Either way, you will be changed. You won't be the same.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 30, 2012 - 02:16pm PT
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Nice try!
Deuteronomy 10:14 To the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it.
Thanks, I really needed that.
Thanks to that Dooter Romney guy for the proof the G O D exists.
Just quote the pure word of GOD.
How is it a pure word if it came in the form of another persons publishing?
I think the Bible needs a dictionary section.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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I miss Truthdweller and go-B's word of their god.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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To lift your eyes to heaven
When all mens' eyes are on the ground,
Is not easy.
To worship at the feet of the angels
When all men worship only fame and riches,
Is not easy.
But the most difficult of all
Is to think the thoughts of the angels,
To speak the words of the angels,
And to do as angels do.
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go-B
climber
Habakkuk 3:19 Sozo
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Psalm 92:4 For You, O Lord, have made me glad by what You have done,
I will sing for joy at the works of Your hands.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Is it just me or does it seem peculiar that people think various religious texts are the "Word Of God".
The Bible, in particular, seems to be the most honest to me and has an extensive Bibliography built right into it.
So if I read certain passages, I know it's not the word of "God" but of Matthew or Luke.
And the first page claims it's the "King James" version.
Seriously, we know at least the Bible has been written and edited hundreds of times over thousands of years by hundreds of both normal people and major political figures.
I'd expect more from "The Word Of God"
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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as john denver once put it, life ain't nothing but a funny, funny riddle. i think it may have a correct answer, and i think believers and atheists are both wrong.
not that the working hypothesis i've come up with will solve many problems, great or small, or prove much more satisfying, at first, than either of the above forms of belief. but if this hypothesis is homing in on the truth, it will offer something you won't get from the others: a future.
this announcement is brought to you by the klimmer ark-on-the-moon thread, via a little book i read about a year ago which brought home, somehow, the fact that ufos are for real. it was one of those key logs that can loosen up a logjam.
my working hypothesis--the IDH (interdimensional hypothesis), rather than the ETH (extraterrestrial hypothesis to explain ufos and related phenomena)--posits the existence of "superior" intelligences in the realm which advanced physics is only beginning to plumb in sophisticated laboratories like CERN and fermilab--a strange, mostly theoretical "multiverse" (rather than "universe") of several dimensions (5? 10? 11? 26? 48? the number seems to change with every genius who comes along), wherein "superior" (at least technologically superior) beings are able to pop in and out of the human milieu, and who have quite possibly been manipulating us through religion and historical events for a very long time.
that's the nutshell of how i've come to view these things, and it engages, rather than ignores or fantasticates, the anomalous and paranormal phenomena which so many, bound to tight and narrow beliefs, seem compelled to stamp out--a major theme in our OT threads on this forum. it also offers insight into the many mythologies of the past and the archaeological "wonders" which so many "scientists" prefer to ignore. consider that all the myths and fantastic epics of the past, right down to the mainstream christian one we're saddled with in the europeanized world, are quite possible, mostly true, reports of the interdimensional realm interacting with our earthly one.
what this does not give us is the easy, absolute, deus-ex-machina which our klimmers, go-Bs and truthdwellers crave. it also does not give us the lonely, ironic existence of your garden variety atheist. it does define a spiritual realm, however, and offer a handle on a reality (for want of a better word) which may have a future.
several writers and researchers, perhaps most notably jacques vallee, have paved the way for this hypothesis. if you don't think you have all the answers, take a look at it.
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Is it just me or does it seem peculiar that people think various religious texts are the "Word Of God".
It is not just you. I understand the quest for spiritual enlightenment that some here discuss but the absolute belief in third-person information that was written down then translated many times back when there was no accountability for political and spiritual (one in the same) leaders just seems absurd. Trusting God is one thing but trusting naturally greedy humans with your everlasting soul seems stupid.
The ones who will not question the authenticity of the Bible do not deserve anything that comes from it. They really are sheep to their shepherd god with no more mind or soul than a sheep.
With God, there is no freedom. The walls of the prison are not visible but the punishment for escape is severe.
Dave
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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[quote]if you don't think you have all the answers, take a look at it./quote]
Books, movies, and speculations from any person of any faith or of no faith will never provide an answer. People can only weakly speculate and make up crap to spew onto other people but it's all mental gymnastics where you end up at the other end of the balance beam with nothing more than you started with.
A rational person might say that they have an entertaining theory but they would also say that the universe is vast and anything we can know is so small that it is indistinguishable from zero.
We know zip, ziltch, nada, nothing. But it is somehow in our nature to fill the void with whatever our heads can dream up.
Dave
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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I think it'd be lols if Klimmer was a different kind of bible thumper than Go-B, who was a different kind of bible thumper than TruthDweller, who was a different kind of bible thumper than Klimmer, who was a diff....
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