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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Scarface, I will thank you to not tell me, or anyone else, when or how to grieve.
That is a very personal issue.
And frankly, none of your business.
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scarface
Trad climber
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Norton,
So that is why you put it up on an internet forum. Get a grip.
SF
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Norton,
In all due respect, it sounds like "your friend" decided against having his leg amputated, which would have obviously prevented the gangrene/pain. Many people are wheelchair bound, and live productive and meaningful lives with one leg amputated.
"His arms and hands were to weak to support him getting around after such a surgery."
Well that is why they have therapist like myself(an O. T.)an P.T.'s to get them back functioning.
But he didn't have the surgery, so his hands/arms were fine.
He basically didn't want to live life without his one leg. And possibly spend his remaining life in a wheel chair.
Like i said, there are many people that spend their whole lives in wheel chairs.
And many people that have both legs amputated and live great lives.
Very strange case Norton.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Locker, you can help with my loss by making me laugh.
How about the picture of you and Fatty and the tailpipe?
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Norton,
I work in hospitals with patients that are terminally ill etc. I am well aware of what goes on with patients that have reached a particular age, have a particular diagnosis or a combination of both. Particularly in this day and age of HMO's.
I remember this guy that was about 60-61. Had perfect health. Just didn't want to live any longer, and decided to starve himself to death. He had convinced his family that he no longer wanted to live.
He got to the point where he could not care for himself. so he was moved to the TCU (Transitional Care Unit) that i was working at. It was up to him and his M.D., and evidently he had convinced his M.D. to let him go through with it. The M.D. i worked for/with was really upset about it, and said it was an outrage, etc.
I was in the room when the nurse practitioner who was on duty told me/us that he had less then 5-10 min to live. I just happened to be working with a patient directly across from him.
I will never forget the look on the guys face when he suddenly sat straight up in bed and after about 10-15 extremely deep breaths and blowing out air shouted:
"OH NO!" IS THERE ANYWAY WE CAN TURN THIS AROUND?"
His exact words. The NP just shook her head no, and walked out of the room.
It wasn't about physical pain. He told me that he didn't want to go where he had just been headed.
He was dead in less then 10 minutes.
True story.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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God bless you Locker.
And Santa too.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Trip, your story is meaningless to this discussion.
I have given you plenty of opportunity to come out and stick to your faith.
Your faith says thou shalt not kill. Doctors "kill" people every day.
Say it loud and clear, Trip. Right now, I want everyone to hear you call
Doctors "murderers", just like you called Dr. K.
And then tell us what we do with murderers in this country.
We either kill them, which again makes "us" murderers.
Or we put them in prison for life.
So Trip, be PROUD of your rigid, 13th century "faith".
Tell us that Doctors who are asked by their terminal, suffering, patients to
give them just a little "more" morphine so they can pass away, are MURDERERS.
Time to "man up", Trip. Call them murderers.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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My story was very pertinent to this thread, because you asked if i was aware of what doctors are "doing all day long". I just told you that I worked with doctors, and patients and other therapists, nurses and techs. that here about how patients are doing. I have been doing it for nearly 20 years. The patients are not in pain because they are on pain meds in the hospital that control that. They are on IV's/drips etc.
Since when did you become a specialist on pain management and whatn M.D's are doing every day. I think you have been mixing to much wine with YOUR pain meds.
And quit ordering me around in regards to your hysterical illusions.
The the guy described the hell that he was going to.
Norton "I want to hear it right now, call Dr. Murderers.
You are certifiably cracking up fella.
Your logic makes about as much sense as a grade school fib.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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I call Dr. Death a murderer a couple days ago, and you come to some twisted irrational reasoning that demands that I call all Doctors murderers??
go to bed Norton, you need a good nights rest.
I wouldn't drink anymore wine with the pain pills your taking tho fella, sounds like your geting a little to close to the deep end...
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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You are chickensh#t, Trip, and shut your mouth about MY back pain.
It is none of YOUR business.
This is NOT about "pain management", and you or I working in a hospital has
nothing whatsoever to do with what I have asked you over and over to admit.
You tell stories and duck the issue.
It was YOU, Trip, who called Dr. K a "murderer" because he "helped" terminally
ill patients to die a little faster than continued suffering "natural death".
You can't dodge and duck this one. When one doctor is a murderer for
doing the SAME thing ALL doctors do, then you damn right YOU should be
called on the carpet for calling ALL doctors who hasten death murderers.
You see nothing wrong with calling doctors who do this "murderers", because
as you have stated, it says in the bible, Thou Shalt Not Kill.
In this country we lock up murderers for life in prison.
Say it loud and clear Trip, tell us all again you want those doctors
prosecuted for murder.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Clearly Sartre nailed it.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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I called Dr. Death a murderer.
I did not call "doctors" murderers, and I know of no one else "who does this".
You are one twisted soul. Full of hate and bitterness. Take your pathetic scenarios somewhere else.
I called Dr. Death a murderer because that is what the D.A. called him. And the public agreed by and large. You and your atheist buddies and their perverted beliefs amount to about 8% or less of society.
Your sick Norton, get yourself some help.
edit: I am serious Norton, Get Some Kind of Help with your psych. issues.
Hate and bitterness eat away at your soul. And believe it or not, you have a soul Norton, and it will be with you forever. Best make some peace with it know before it is to late.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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L'enfer, c'est les autres.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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"Not about you or i working in a hospital..."
I work in and have worked with doctors for nearly 20 years. I know that current pain meds are capable of keeping a person pain free.
Your scenarios are bull, coming from a person that has a total atheist agenda. One that revolves around death, and like Fructose is fond of referring to "The Grim Reaper".
You are completely illogical, and your claims are totally unfounded.
Doctors work under, and take the Hippocratic Oath.
They preserve life, and make sure that anyone suffering from pain is comfortable. I am around patients day in and day out.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Merci Cintune!
C'est vraiment juste.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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And for all those on this thread who argue that only religion is unethical and harmful to human beings, here's the latest out of the science world.
Instead of bashing each other, it seems to me that people on this thread should be looking for ways to teach their fellow humans and our society some kind of universal ethics and respect for life. Clearly there are good and evil people in both the science and religion categories.
U.S. apologizes to Guatemalans for secret STD experiments
U.S. scientific researchers infected hundreds of Guatemalan mental patients with sexually transmitted diseases from 1946 to 1948.... On Friday, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius issued a formal apology to the Central American nation, and to Guatemalan residents of the United States.
"Although these events occurred more than 64 years ago, we are outraged that such reprehensible research could have occurred under the guise of public health," said Clinton and Sebelius in a joint statement. "We deeply regret that it happened, and we apologize to all the individuals who were affected by such abhorrent research practices."
The discovery of the long-ago experiments stems from another, far better known episode of federal tampering with test subjects to study sexually transmitted diseases: the long-running "Tuskegee experiment," studying 399 poor black men from Macon County, Ala., who had been diagnosed with syphilis but never informed of their condition. Federal scientists simply told the men they had "bad blood" and researchers compiled a four-decades-long study monitoring "untreated syphilis in the male Negro."
Researchers never treated the illness over its usually fatal course, even after the simple remedy of penicillin was shown to be an effective syphilis treatment; participants received only free meals and medical exams, together with federal funding of their funeral expenses after they died. The study began in 1932, continuing right through to 1972, when it was exposed in media reports.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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You and your atheist buddies and their perverted beliefs amount to about 8% or less of society.
Well, I thought we had reached a mutual understanding a few pages ago regarding this. Now, I know that there has been some agitation on both sides and it really needs to end asap, but really, I do take offense at being called "perverted".
Again, you are perfectly welcome to live your life as you see fit and even advise those who will listen to your philosophy, but don't go INFLICTING your views on those who don't share them. I am as firmly convinced of the TRUTH of my views as you are of yours. Neither of us is more right than the other, but neither is less right too. You don't seem to get that. No matter what either of us thinks or is told by others, no one will truly know until the time comes.
We treat our pets better than we treat our brethren. As a medical professional, if I perceive that one of my patients is suffering, it is my duty to relieve that suffering. If that means ending their intractable suffering by empowering them to terminate their own life, then it is my professional and moral duty to do so. Kevorkian never killed anyone. He provided the means for others to do it themselves using his device.
Do not waste your or our time trying to convince us that we're going to burn in hell. If it's true, then you can stand at the edge of the pit and dance, singing "I told you so". But if you're wrong, then in those last moments when you realize it was all a fairy tale, I expect you to feel the full weight of the guilt you will bear for being a road block in the quest to relieve suffering of your fellow humans.
Hard-over, myopic bible thumpers like yourself are one of the great evils in this world.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Skeptic,
And I haven't been back to this thread until today(since we last spoke)and had not intended to waste my time posting here and generally ignore the thread untel today when i noticed Donini comment in regards to the NY Times article in regards to knowledge. Which I feel, like most i do about most polls is meaningless/proves nothing either way. So i felt compelled to point out a discrepancy in his statement/correct an error.
Then weschrist makes a major issue out of minor media attempting to sell magazine crap...
Then Dr,F asks a question about if God is going to send him to hell. He has already asked me or others that question dozens of times, so i shouldn't have waited part of a beautiful day explaining to him that God is not sending anyone anywhere....
So, frankly i could care less about the lost God haters here any longer, WAY to much time and energy on my part already over the last year or so.
But, I, like you can share the Good News when ever i please, i don't cow down to you or any other atheist, agnostic, etc.
But i plan to "shake the dust off my feet" as Jesus instructed us to do when we leave a town that rejects Him/our testimony of Him.
The one thing you are wrong about and don't understand is that "someone can know for sure" that it is a matter of faith, then He reveals Himself to you. But that is the way He chose to do it.
And I would never/won't laugh at your destiny, nothing funny about it....
~777~
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pa
climber
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"When the love of power changes to the power of love, there will be peace".
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