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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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The fact of the matter is, the more you know and hear about the "Good News" the more accountable you are for following and obeying that knowledge. I am speaking in regards to the Holy Bible. And receiving Jesus Christ as Lord.
America, with churches and bibles everywhere etc. is going to be held much more accountable, and receive a much harsher judgment then Sodom and Gomorrah.
And the devils advocates, all the anti-Christs I shudder at the thought of the wrath that awaits them.
I know you will know say "Scare tactics..."
Well, I would be held accountable for not warning you of the wrath of God that awaits you.
The fact is that He loves you every bit as me, at this point. His love for you is a deep, deep grief. Somewhat similar as a mothers lament for a loss child. But times that by tens of thousands of times more pain and grief...
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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I was a Catholic, and went to church and catchism(sp)on my own as a youth(up to 13yrs)and have some "knowledge" of the transubstantiation of the body and blood of Christ. I remember thinking it rather strange, and questioned it. I went to communion(and went to confession prior to that)and focused more on my repentance, and making an effort not to do what I had confessed to the priest, and then supposed that he passed on to God.
But I had a very personal relationship with Jesus/God from 8 years old as I have all ready stated. And around thirteen years old, I started moving away from/questioning many of the beliefs that the Roman Catholic Church holds.
Evangelical protestant Christians believe that practicing, or taking part in the sacrament/communion is a way of remembering what Christ did on the cross("Do this in memory of Me..."). That is the focus. And it is not the literal body and blood of Christ. What is more important is, have we confessed and turned from our sins...is our heart right in considering the price that He paid for us.
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Anastasia
climber
hanging from a crimp and crying for my mama.
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Not to interfere too much but... All I can think about when I see this thread is Jaun/Jeff passing away. I am sure he now knows the deeper truth behind this.
AFS
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Nope. No he doesn't. Life for the individual is a one-shot deal, honey.
But it might take a few years to come to grips with this reality. We're built to survive, not necessarily to come to full-on grips with our own mortality. A few years? More if you were raised in the expectations of traditional Abrahamic theology. I think the formula is Y=5*X. -Where Y is the number of years to recast your thinking, X the number of years you imprinted on Christianity and its promise of eternal lifeafter. So plugging in the numbers, it is easy to why some raised in a Christian environment NEVER make the transition, NEVER free themselves. Sad.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Dr.F "What will He do, send us..."
He will honor your request/belief, that you do not want to spend eternity with Him. That is pretty evident from the discussion onn this thread, and I imagine what you have stated elsewhere and believe.
He is not going to force you here on earth, to make that choice. That is the whole Bible story in a nut shell.
i know that others, such as WB, believe otherwise, but this is it.
All that was prophesied is coming true regarding the latter days. He is bringing the knowledge of Him to the whole world. Through satelite television, radio, and through missionaries, etc. America is very cold, and is drifting further and further from the Biblical truths/beliefs.
Other continents such as South America and Africa, and countries such as China and Iran etc. it is just the opposite. There are hundreds accounts of Jesus Christ appearing to people and revealing Himself to them coming out of Iran. A country where the Bible is restricted/not available or allowed.
There are only two places to spend eternity, with Him, or away from Him.
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scarface
Trad climber
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Nope. No he doesn't. Life for the individual is a one-shot deal, honey
Now this sure is a proclamation of faith and belief fruity.
SF
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Yeah, it's faith (aka, trust) and yeah, it's belief (aka, mental holding). (a) A few years of education (e.g., science edu) and (b) commitment to live up to it would do wonders for you, then you'd get it.
Believe you me, I'm the last person who's going to let ol'time religious crackpots keep the words "faith" and "belief" to themselves. These are good English words.
I trust in my climbing gear. I have faith in it. But it's no blind faith, it's experiential faith, evidential faith, science-based faith, reason-based faith. That's the difference. For those who don't get that, what a pity.
What's more, I believe. I believe in science. I believe in education. I believe in the good works so-called atheists and agnostics do now that they have the freedom to express themselves without persecution by the townspeople. Indeed, I believe in lots of things. -That makes me a believer. Yeah, baby!
"A-theists" who relinquish these words to Abrahamic supernaturalists slow the movement. But I trust (i.e., I have faith) that insofar as they start thinking like strategists in a campaign - which is what this is - they will come around to breaking with old habits, reframing things, using these words.
Reminders: (1) Christians are infidels. Christians are non-believers. -When the "God" is Amon-Re or Ishtar. Do the movement a favor - have the courage and originality to reframe it - and start calling them on it. (2) Only religions make a mess of the words belief and faith. As peoples and cultures evolve, as they move past "blind" faith and "supernaturalist" belief, the usefulness of these words will be clear.
Faith in education,
belief in rock n roll,
HFCS.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Anastasia,
Yes, I to believe that Juan/Jeff knows the very answer to the question he asked here. As you succinctly put it "the deeper truth behind this". And as I stated 3-4 pages back that i also think about Jeff every time I come to this thread. I wish i had contacted him, or taken him more seriously.
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scarface
Trad climber
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Nope. No he doesn't. Life for the individual is a one-shot deal, honey
This adamant proclamation goes beyond your following explanation fruity. You state with complete certainty that you know what comes with death. And you deliver your thought with a hint of fire and brimstone. You must be repressed as well.
SF
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Memory, thought processes, consciousness, sentience - they all derive from brain circuitry. When the plug is pulled on these circuits, it's pulled on these mental functions, too.
Go to school. Read the biology. You know, some people have actually dedicated their lives -decades upon decades - to these subjects. This dedication and the education that follows from it are clear. Brain produces mind in all its aspects. There is no ghost in the machine.
Challenge yourself. Do yourself and the world a favor and come to grips with this reality. For many it has to do with attitude. Attitude is everything.
First, acquire the education. Second, live up to it. -Which for many is the harder step. That's the new adaptive proactive orientation. Strive to gain it.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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One of my most dearest friends, who was 75, died last Sunday.
He developed an Aneurysm in his lower right leg. The doctors told him that
the only way to save his life was to cut off his leg.
He hands and arms were too weak to support him getting around on crutches after such a surgery.
He was faced with the choice of either "living" the remainder of his life in
a wheelchair,
unable to work in his shop, walk with his dog, or have any kind of "normal" life.
He made the very emotional and deeply personal decision to not have his leg
cut off, and instead they took him home, where he lay in bed suffering while
the pain of gang-green spread though his body.
The doctor gave him morphine for the pain, and when my friend could not
stand the agony any more, the Doctor did what doctors do all day long,
he gave him a little extra morphine. He died while asleep.
Now, here is my point. According to the fundamentalist Christians like
those right here on this thread, that doctor committed "murder" because he
knowingly made my friend die sooner than if he he would have just let the
injection made him scream in agony a few more days.
That's right, just like Dr. Kevorkian was vilified and called a "murderer"
right on this thread a few days ago, ALL doctors all across the world who
"help" ease the agony of death when their patients are literally begging
them to do so, are MURDERERS.
How dare you judge and call these fine Doctors "murderers".
And how dare you DENY my friend dying with peace and without agony.
Murderers should be prosecuted, you irrational zealots would put all those doctors in
prison with life sentences for MURDER.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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weschrist- "keep it to your self..."
Dr.F- asked me a question, and i answered it.
And I will do what ever i feel like doing with my beliefs, this thread is titled "Why do so many people BELIEVE in God? (Serious Question?)"
I am sharing my "BELIEFS" and why I "BELIEVE"...
weschrist, when I think of you, this Bible verse often comes to mind. "The fool has said in his heart, there is no God."
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Fructose,
I have had years of biology and the sciences/neuro-sciences. We are required to take the premed undergrad program before we enter(or apply for)the Occupational Therapy program. I find/found it fascinating. It is a Person that I know. Nothing in science will prove anything in regards to His not being God.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Ed, I am very sorry to here of your friends suffering, and the difficult decision he and the doctor ultimately made.
What was the date, last Sunday the 27th.?
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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"I have had years of biology..."
Well, it sure isn't reflected in your BELIEFS. Sad.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Anastasia!
I stayed away from this thread for months, it is inhabited by the God haters that lurk here and, I imagine elsewhere that seek to destroy what others are searching for, and believe.
My faith can not be destroyed.
Unfortunately, those who ask a simple question, such as Jaun/Jeff, are often turned off by the rabid bitterness and hate that is spewed forth by those who despise the very answers that are offered by "believers" such as myself and others to his simple question "Why...".
I think of Jaun/Jeff and wonder, if he had found that "mustard seed" of faith/belief that we have to share, would he still be with us.
He was sincere in asking, that is clear by the following posts that he made at the beginning of this thread.
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scarface
Trad climber
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Fruity,
You never did answer my question (though likely you have the same complaint about me) about what is consciousness. Fact of the matter is that nobody can explain what it is. You do not know that the mind follows from the brain.
Pure and simple. I am educated. I am not a christian. You do not know what happens when one dies.
Norton,
Sorry you are grieving, but really, you like to create demons.
what religion is that?
SF
Edit to add:
Interesting take on consciousness in this book by a physicist Henry Stapp called Mindful Universe - Quantum Mechanics and the Participating Observer.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Just as it's taken time to work through evolution, climate change, etc., so too it's taken time to work through "consciousness" issues and human mortality. But the knowledge systems are there. For those who want to (a) work through them and (b) live up to the education they impart. -Which clearly isn't everyone in the good ol' U.S.A.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Scarface, I am not getting your point.
You say I "like to create demons".
What exactl demons have I created?
Clue: Atheists do NOT "believe" in devils, or gods, or demons.
Maybe my stating my horror at the fundamentalist Christians on this thread
claiming that a doctor helping a patient in agony to "die" was a "murderer"?
How did I "create a demon" there? I would say the real demons are those that
would criminalize doctors for committing "murder".
And make no mistake about it: Trip7 calls such doctors "murderers" because
they "took a life" before it ran its "normal" agony of dying.
Just like he called the great compassionist Dr. Kevorkian a "murderer".
Trip7 and his 12th century sadists who would prefer to see humans suffer
in agony rather than just have a doctor give them that little more morphine
that happens all day long in developed countries, are the real "demons"
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scarface
Trad climber
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Norton,
Your friend has been dead less than a week. Grieve.
I think that using your loss to so singularly fuel anger creates demons (metaphorical in your case). You'll cover up and lose things about your friend that deserve more nuance than just anger IMHO.
After all, he did accomplish what he wanted. That should be celebrated.
SF
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