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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Oct 20, 2015 - 11:41am PT
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When I got into climbing in the 90s we were having the same discussions. Just in person. People have to be educated about why its bad to dumb down routes, because there are benefits to adding bolts like routes accepting more traffic and more climbers. However I haven't really seen much change in the overall view in the last 25 years, many new climbers don't see the benefit of not adding bolts until its explained to them. Old codgers want NO bolts added anytime. And there's a spectrum in the middle.
Personally I think it's sad that the Salathe has so many bolts now because 13 bolts was a testament to how few bolts it took them to climb el cap. But obviously that ship has sailed.
But for the nose I think all belays should be bolted and easy to rap from since that route sees so much traffic and bails. And warren wouldn't care.
Erik I appreciate that you are being forthright and communicative on this thread. I might not agree with everything you are doing, but I have a lot more respect for you since you are explaining your thoughts and actions and not sidestepping in a somewhat hostile environment. Keep in mind though that people willing to go up and talk to you in the valley are probably the people in agreement with you. People pissed at you likely won't talk to you, so you are probably getting a skewed view of the average views on you work.
As mentioned I have very little time to spend in the valley, but hopefully I'll be able to climb the bottom of the nose and remove that bolt at some point, because I'm one of the people that doesn't think it's belongs.
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c wilmot
climber
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Oct 20, 2015 - 11:49am PT
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go fill in the bolt holes at swan slab and let a ranger see your handiwork....
See how that works out for you
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Oct 20, 2015 - 11:54am PT
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go fill in the bolt holes at swan slab and let a ranger see your handiwork....
Certain areas (and routes) are lost. Might as well just go straight to putting up the escalators on those "trade" routes. "Climbing" indeed!
I think that what the majority of us are trying to accomplish here, since ES "is in attendance" and is (supposedly) "listening," is to get him to CEASE the additional damage and loss.
For many routes, their bells cannot be unrung. But can we POSSIBLY halt or even reduce the ringing of new bells (all of which are death knells)?
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Oct 20, 2015 - 12:36pm PT
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locker: didn't think you had any interest in walls and climbing in the valley. Slow day in the other threads? ;)
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Lurkingtard
climber
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Oct 20, 2015 - 12:40pm PT
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Go Team Tard!
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Oct 20, 2015 - 01:10pm PT
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The TR should be entertaining, in a "Brokeback Bivy" sorta way.
Enjoy your sesh....
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Oct 20, 2015 - 01:17pm PT
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They will have to grapple for it, or punch it out. Not sure how that works.
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Lurkingtard
climber
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Oct 20, 2015 - 01:46pm PT
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I would love to see a GIF of L0cker
LoF*#kingLing
TeamTard
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Oct 20, 2015 - 02:27pm PT
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Thanks guys and gals for the entertainment. Lol and don't retrobolt. Only the Joker would do both and he was beyond insane.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Oct 20, 2015 - 03:18pm PT
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You Guys are rendering this thread woot.
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Erik Sloan
Big Wall climber
Yosemitebigwall.com
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Oct 20, 2015 - 03:55pm PT
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Hey Brad Young(Mtn Young) et all - I always try to remove the old bolts when I am replacing bolts.
This part said jokingly -
Of course you would have known that if you even talked to anyone who has climbed, or heaven forbid you had climbed, any of the popular bigwall routes here(this thread is about a bigwall climb on Washington Column, after all), as I've replaced bolts on nearly all of them. Not being sassy, just pointing out something curious on this thread - folks seem quick to want to be upset about something that is easily verifiable: I climbed Tangerine Trip/Virginia eight times before I got all the bolts replaced. You don't hear about folks going up there and complaining about a bunch of trashy bolts left around. Some friends just got off a couple days ago and they were super psyched.
I teach people how to hand drill a couple times a month. I have 3-4 hand drill setups that I lend out to folks around here, and give them free hardware.
I hope that folks take away from this that Ten Days After is a cool climb and they should go climb it. The Prow, right next door, which I replaced most of the bolts on(there are still a few old ones, if you're interested in helping out ;) is more classic but after you do the Prow, TDA is an awesome adventure.
Funny responses about the Salathe bolts. I assure you that everyone who climbs the Salathe today is clipping those anchors happily. Of course, just like free soloing, if you want to build natural belays you can do that too. You don't hear Alex Honnold bagging on Half Dome saying - 'what bolts, why do you guys need those things?', lol.
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klaus
climber
Slauson & Crenshaw
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Oct 20, 2015 - 04:28pm PT
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Erik Sloan = Total D#@&%ebag Assshole, Power Bolting Retrodrller with NO REGARD for anyone's opinions for what happens on the routes he ruins. he drills bolts willy nilly at his own discretion which is fundamentally flawed
Carry on Stoopid Topo. i've told you all for years they guy needs to be shut down.
Eric Kohl
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overwatch
climber
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Oct 20, 2015 - 04:40pm PT
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Sounds like he is recruiting minions to do his bidding as well. I wanted to give benefit of doubt at first in a situation I am far removed from but each "reply" post seems to slip further into a narcissistic haze.
I would like to hear from these friends and other rock stars that support "the cause".
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Oct 20, 2015 - 04:43pm PT
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Eric, Mtnyoung has climbed many a Yosemite bigwall. Please cease from adding any bolts to any pitches or belays.
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Oct 20, 2015 - 04:50pm PT
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Yo Erik,
I'm always stoked to clip a nice safe bolt at a belay and I'm grateful for all the hard work you've done over the years for the climbing community at large. Keep up the good work, keep yer head screwed on straight and don't lose a wink of sleep over all the haters out there.
See you around,
Scott
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Oct 20, 2015 - 04:51pm PT
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I can't tell if you're sincere and have some screws loose, or just don't give a crap what other climbers think and are trolling like a boss.
He's had more than a few loose screws for at least a decade. Anyone who goes 17 years without learning how to climb, but still goes up and retrobolts numerous routes and big walls must be insane. When he attempts to rationalize his aberrant behavior, as by invoking phantom grateful climbers, his hallucinatory delusions are made public.
He refuses, or can't acknowledge that rock climbs are a shared resource, and should not be violated by a clueless sociopath. Some of the damage he has done in the Valley has occurred stealthily, as in the winter, which further indicates he is a cunning sociopath, and not simply a demented imbecile.
Yo Erik,
I'm always stoked to clip a nice safe bolt at a belay and I'm grateful for all the hard work you've done over the years for the climbing community at large. Keep up the good work, keep yer head screwed on straight and don't lose a wink of sleep over all the haters out there.
I can't believe how tone-deaf some people are.
Nobody here is suggesting that replacing belay bolts is wrong. Everybody posting here appreciates Erik's work in that respect.
The "haters" are offended by his additional practice of adding new bolts, mid-pitch, to make climbs easier and/or safer. He modifies and changes entire routes. He pretends that his "good deeds" give him a blanket pass to do whatever he wants to the rest of the route.
This isn't like confusing "apples and oranges". It's more like confusing "apples and horseshit".
Rebolting belays is NOT the same thing as retrobolting whole pitches.
Micronut, did you have to exert yourself and stretch to reach Layton Kor's bolts on the famous roof pitch on the Column? Or has Erik commoditized that pitch into a boring clip-up, now known as the Nanook Roof?
If that pitch was not Nanooked when you were up there, do you agree with Erik that it would be OK for him to retrobolt it, to add more bolts with a closer spacing, to make the pitch easier? Do you wish that Erik had more fully Nanooked the entire Washington Column, so that you could have successfully made it to the top?
I just want to hear, directly from you, and any other climbers who agree with Erik Sloan that it's acceptable and good practice to retrobolt existing routes on a whim, for any reason, including making those routes easier to climb. The overwhelming majority of posters here, and climbers I know don't agree with Erik. I have been climbing since 1975, and have never met another climber who thought it was OK to wantonly and randomly retrobolt existing routes.
Erik claims to have many supporters who are grateful for his retrobolting. Speak up, please.
Or, are you embarrassed to publicly advocate retrobolting, even though it allows you to climb routes that would otherwise be beyond your capabilities?
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sasha Cohen
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe CA
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Oct 20, 2015 - 04:51pm PT
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Seems like the anchor above the Harding Slot could use some work?... Haven't been in a while. Hi, Coiler!
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Heisenberg
Trad climber
RV, middle of Nowehere
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Oct 20, 2015 - 05:04pm PT
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There was a BASE jumper once who didn't listen to the community. He went around burning objects and informing the media of buildings and antenna's that he was jumping in a city.
So they went to his house, knocked on the door, gagged him, duct taped his arms and legs. Put a tarp on his living room floor and tarred and feathered him... really
When they left him tied up they whispered in his ear " it's ok bro. It's " your BASE buddies "
He got the message
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Oct 20, 2015 - 05:31pm PT
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Hey Brad Young(Mtn Young) et all - I always try to remove the old bolts when I am replacing bolts.
OK Erik, thanks for a partial answer.
 So, on what percentage of "2,000 replacement bolts" have you pulled the old bolt out or otherwise removed it (without leaving a chopped off bolt stump)?
And, when you do pull the old bolts, do you patch the old holes and camouflage them?
Basically, I'm trying to figure out how bad a person you really are. This line of questions is designed to help me figure out whether you show any respect for the rock at all, or, for that matter, any respect for those climbers who will come after you. Do you do anything to restore or do you just leave an unsightly mess?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Oct 20, 2015 - 05:58pm PT
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^^^ +1 for mtnyoung.
Over ten years ago, some bloke named Ammon wrote this on the first page:
This is the root of the problem. Some rebolters upgrade the size of the bolt which changes the character of the pitch. Being run-out above a 1/4" rivet/bolt is a lot different that being run-out above a 3/8" bolt w/hanger. I think we all agree that keeping the "feel" of an existing route should be our main priority when replacing hardware.
Sage words.
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