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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Even Texas has sport climbs.......(Why are Texans like farts......oh, never mind....).....seems like no one likes to trad climb anymore;......it's a dying form of recreation that will be phased out just like climbing with pitons.....
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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"Bolts should be placed on the lead, never on rappel " Alan Bartlett, Rock Climbs of Lost Horse Valley"........Big Al has spoken.....I rest my case....
Water Babies (put on on the lead)
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inyoupyos
climber
California
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Props Degained. Good points. Shows you care for the whole notion of ethics, unlike some so threatened by it they think the sheer quantity of their posts argues their case that it doesn't matter.
Climbs that remain will speak for themselves. Are your climbs and crags littered with hardware and a snore fest, probably they got put up top down.
Especially if the following ethics got ignored:
*Don't bolt near perfectly protectable cracks
*Refrain from establishing bolted lines too close to another so that no one knows where either line goes and can just clip the other route next to you.
*Don't bolt over some other already established line.
Period.. Sad, but lots of folks with whatever their chosen style don't pay heed to these few basics.
Doesn't automatically mean someone like yourself Todd is not a good guy putting up some great routes, just bc you sometimes go topdown. Stop feeling threatened by purists who are only trying to promote these basic tenants, which if not ignored, should allow all players with different styles their day in the sun having fun.
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Guck
Trad climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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Todd, how many pictures do you have in your library?
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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We need to paint the name of the sport route at the base of the climb too....(as here in Luxembourgh...).....bolts, paint;.....just so it don't hurt the plants and animals....I don't see a problem........
Berdorf, baby...
Located just to the right of the painted name (visible in the lower left) "La Plage".
Interesting to note most of the climbing terrain at Berdorf is closed to protect those plants, etc...
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Todd,
More pictures!
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Sport climbers named this formation " The Pope's Penis".....are they talking about the German Pope or the Polish Pope..........whatever;...it's disrespectful.....no Trad climber would ever be so disrespectful and callous....I think the bolts should be removed......and the climbers who did this punished and repremanded.....
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Beers, bolts, and babes;.....
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Keep those bolts close;...don't want to get scared now......
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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With enough bolts.....any ol' choss will do.......
(Bolt it......and they will come and climb it.....).....
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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This is all it takes to be famous and get your name in the guidebook.......it's fairly simple.....(lawn chair is optional....)...yeah;..there are sacrifices....but think about the glory....(and maybe you might get laid from some ho at the local gym....)....it's worth every penny spent and hour invested....
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Trad dinosaurs....get over yourselves...is it really that fun....hand up.....foot up.....jam.....hand up.....foot up.....jam......hand up....foot up.....jam........hand up.....foot up....jam.........
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Even LOCKER loves the sport climbing........
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Danged sport climbing bastids done ruint my front yard.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Todds post at the top of the page looks like Fancy Free.
Fun how you can just glance at a pitch and know it.
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slayton
Trad climber
Here and There
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Jun 10, 2011 - 01:23am PT
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I just wrote a bunch of bullshit and then deleted it. Damn wine.
Accept it. This isn't a debate over how safe a climb is because it has bolts every so many feet or run out and scary. It's about how it was put up. We could debate the nature of a climb but it seems to devolve into how many feet per bolt vs. cracks nearby vs. rap bolted or onsighted or any number of other things. This climbing shite has gotten pretty diverse and though we still think that we speak the same language and are engaging in the same pursuit we're not. Actually . .. . most of us probably know that.
I've climbed routes put up on lead that I would consider a sport route that I'm sure was a very different experience for the FA'ist. I imagine that there must be rap bolted routes that are run out (haven't done any that I know of but post up if you have). The experience, after the route is put up, is always going to be different. And thank Gawd!! Because those FA'ist wouldn't be putting up routes if it was like following a route.
This has been and continues to be a debate over ethics and about how routes SHOULD be put up. Is it the experience and boldness of the FA'ist that matters or those that follow? Is a line put up as a service to those that might follow? Should that line be put up so that they might savor every gymnastic move or should it make them think and maybe be bold in turn?
I think that there is room for both. And both in ground up and rap bolted routes. Both should be thought out. Both should be weighted and evaluated. Others might follow. If you don't give a shite about how you ascend, that leaves others to do the same after you. Situational ethics perhaps but built upon local traditions. Change is hard. Sometimes that change shouldn't come. Sometimes it should.
PS: Posted this after only reading half of this thread so if I'm repeating somthing that's already been said please forgive. Or not.
Sean
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Jun 10, 2011 - 06:22am PT
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Wise words, Sean.......climbing is diverse...and we all don't speak the same language....(just try talking to some gym climbing some day;.......)......but we are all connected by the one same common tie;.....we all love to climb dem rocks........the who, how, when, where, and why;....THAT's the stuff we LOVE to discuss(....discusss is a polite word for argue over......oftentimes around the campfire and on the net...)....I hope my silly captions to my photos haven't offended too many people;...just trying to make light of our awesome diversity amongst us climber types,...and keep it light and humorous as we take a deeper look into that who, what , when , where , and why we climb........and to use one of the quotes I hate the most......"It's all good...."....thanks, Sean,...for tying it all together for us;....if only for a moment.....(....now you can get back to the REAL issues.......damn rap bolting scum.......or did I mean to say doofus ignorant stubborn kooky lead bolting dinosaurs.......)..climb on.....and enjoy the climbs, and our diversity among us all.......we all ROCK.....don't we.......(...still gotta wonder about them Frenchies........remember To Bolt or Not to Be........damn Frenchie hang-doggin' rap bolting wankers....)....
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Jun 10, 2011 - 06:29am PT
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We all are at the mercy of the FA party;.....rap or lead.....hope they weren't out to get us.....
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Jun 10, 2011 - 06:31am PT
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Bolted on lead or on rappel...that sport stuff at Maple is the tits on a bull, aint' it.....way fun..........
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Jun 10, 2011 - 11:00am PT
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Bolts; yes....beer; yes.......bath; no thank you......
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