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katiebird
climber
yosemite
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 4, 2011 - 05:21pm PT
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...is it still sport climbing?
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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If aid was used Bachar called it a Mixed Route.....eg 12b A1
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Closely spaced bolts and a bolted anchor;...that is a sport climb......Put up on the lead or rap.....you can still get "closely spaced bolts and a bolted anchor."
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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If they are placed on lead, and it is not easy to do so, using twist drills and no motorized gadgets, then IMHO it's a traditional lead ascent.
All ascents that follow are sport climbs unless there are some dangerous runout sections between bolts. When I made the second ascent of the Queenpin in the Black Hills Needles in the mid 1960s, I admired Royal's efforts at placing a couple of bolts on very steep and exposed terrain. For me, however, it was what would later be called a sport climb.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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The master has spoken. Thank you. Now there is nothing left to add. Seriously.
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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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This is retarded.
Define "closely spaced".
Explain why using a hand drill instead of power makes it trad....
Go climb a rock, did you have fun? Good. Go climb another one.....
The "rules" are too nebulous. I may have lost a friend over conversations like this recently and have decided that it isn't worth the trouble to debate.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Listen to Mr. Gordon.
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Slater
Trad climber
Central Coast
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I think you're confusing/mixing the style of ascent with the characteristic of the climb.
If you didn't see the guidebook, or know the history of the ascent, and just walked up and climbed it... how would it feel?
what would you call it?
Make your own decision if it matters to you.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Define "closely spaced".
The worst that can happen is you get a "boo boo" on your knee or elbow
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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I think it is safe to say it's a sport climb if there are bolts right below and again right above a nice crack in which to place gear...
Sorry Todd, it's a dirty job but... ;-)
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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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The worst that can happen is you get a "boo boo" on your knee or elbow
And does this take into account the steepness of the climb?
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Slater called out the right destinction to make.
style of ascent is different from the characteristic post-hoc description of a climb.
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Fixdpin
Trad climber
Springville,CA
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I agree with Kris. It is probably a sport climb if bolts were used in places where gear could have been used. It is also probably a sport climb if the bolts were placed while rappelling. It is probably a sport climb if most or all of the protection bolts are spaced within two body lengths of each other. It is probably a sport climb if all of the above criteria are met, it is deliberately difficult, and you can do the whole route and then lower to the ground with one 200 meter rope. If all bolts were placed on lead (with a hand drill or power drill, with or without hooks), if no bolts were placed next to features where gear or slings could be used for protection, if belays require gear placement,and if it is multi-pitch, then it is probably trad.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
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If aid was used Bachar called it a Mixed Route ... Did Bachar call the BY a "mixed route"? B/Y has already been lead using only (taped) hooks or tied off knobs(?). A clean aid-only ascent might be next, and eventually a free solo of it to come full circle.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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It is probably a sport climb if bolts were used in places where gear could have been used
no, that is unethical, not a characteristic of sport climbing, per se. even if common.
It is also probably a sport climb if the bolts were placed while rappelling.
no, some rappel placed bolts are spaced out, and is a dumb practice, but is not a sport climb, per se.
It is probably a sport climb if most or all of the protection bolts are spaced within two body lengths of each other.
yes, or a body length, but definitions vary on the precise distance.
is probably a sport climb if all of the above criteria are met, it is deliberately difficult, and you can do the whole route and then lower to the ground with one 200 meter rope. If all bolts were placed on lead (with a hand drill or power drill, with or without hooks), if no bolts were placed next to features where gear or slings could be used for protection, if belays require gear placement,and if it is multi-pitch, then it is probably trad.
absolutely not, especially on multi pitch. you can have closely spaced bolts on multi pitch routes.
the point of a sport climb is to make it relatively safer than more dangerous types of climbs where it requires gear and gear skills rather than just bolt clipping basics. consequently bolts are found close together on 'sport' climbs. they are about sport and only physical difficult, not mental challenges, and not about the essence of rock climbing, namely adventure.
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Nate D
climber
San Francisco
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Whoa there Munge, now you've gotta define mental challenge and adventure. Pretty subjective terms...
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bob
climber
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If it was bolted on lead then you can bet your ass that the FA had one hell of a different experience or experiences than if they bolted it from rappel.
A person can write a much better memoir of the experience if they put routes up on lead.
Bob J.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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parlez-vous français?
i heerd tell mr. gordon is reinventing the definition of sport climbing. maybe that's worth a separate thread.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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The most interesting part of this thread is why Katie is asking. What's up, Katie?
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Mr. Gordon is pretty unreal.
Not only has he re-invented the joy of raising a family, and the fun-hogging of re-routing and new-routing an entire National Monument until the Feds had to re-consider and then re-designate it to become a National Park (not to mention the way he's been re-in-spire-ing a slew of adjoining Western States) -- and also not to mention re-infusing new meaning into the concept of climber generosity in his "hell yeah, party at my place and of course you can surf my couch" kind of attitude...
Yeah, and I'll bet his kindergarteners were pretty sad this week that their year with him was over. They damn sure learned all they need to know in life, thanks to Mr. Gordon.
If Todd leaves a bolt in his wake, I'll just be thankful IF I can eke my way, finagle my way, sketch my way up to it and (Whew!) clip the sucker. No matter how he got it there.
Thank you Sir Gordon!
And, yeah, I too was wondering what Katie has in her diamond-mind?
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