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MisterE
Social climber
Bouncy Tiggerville
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Aug 31, 2010 - 06:51pm PT
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Thanks for your post, Jesse - see you at Facelift!
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Aug 31, 2010 - 06:52pm PT
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hey theresay, JesseM.... thanks for sharing with the folks here...
as always, things like this are hard for all involved...
god bless, to all...
:)
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 31, 2010 - 07:25pm PT
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I tried the link that Jesse provided, but it looks like you have to be a subscriber (pay) to use it. I'd guess that most subscribers are lawyers, or people whose jobs require access, e.g. those who work in the police or court systems. Which means they're not likely to repost whatever is on that site, here.
To sum up:
1. There are still few known facts.
2. We haven't heard Ammon's side of the story, and aren't likely to, at least not here. (There could be other witnesses and evidence.)
3. There's no doubt that basejumping in the park, and from El Cap, is contrary to the CFR. Whether it should be legal, or permitted, is moot - it isn't.
4. Whether or not basejumping should be legal in Yosemite, it wasn't at the time Ammon is alleged to have jumped. It seems unlikely that he didn't know that, or the history of basejumping and law enforcement in the park. Likewise, attempting to escape/resisting arrest have never been legal.
5. Whether basejumping should be legalized or permitted in the park, and whether the police used excess zeal (surveillance) or force (taser) in arresting Ammon, are separate issues from what he did, although perhaps there is a constitutional rights issue.
6. We all want to express support of a fellow climber, right or wrong - but need to acknowledge that he may have been wrong, in the eyes of the law if not of the community.
7. It is within your rights to work to change the law. I don't know how that might be done, or whether it's possible, but suspect it would take considerable time and effort.
8. Commercialization and over-regulation of parks should be a concern for everyone.
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atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
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Aug 31, 2010 - 07:31pm PT
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The complaints not up on PACER yet.
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Aug 31, 2010 - 07:37pm PT
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Anders,
It's not that much,
"An access fee of $0.08 per page, as approved by the Judicial Conference of the United States, will be assessed for access to this service. For more information about CM/ECF, click here or contact the PACER Service Center at (800) 676-6856."
-from pacer.gov
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Aug 31, 2010 - 08:44pm PT
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thanks jesse.
let's see how many folks want to spend 8 cents a page.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Aug 31, 2010 - 08:51pm PT
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Oakland Man Dies After Being Shocked By Taser In Jail
Posted: 5:52 pm PDT August 18, 2010
DUBLIN, Calif. -- A 50-year-old Oakland man being held in Santa Rita Jail has died after being shocked twice by a Taser during a fight with deputies.
Sheriff's spokesman Sgt. J.D. Nelson says Martin Harrison died in a hospital about 5 a.m. Wednesday.
Harrison had been hospitalized since Monday night after the fight in the jail's minimum security area.
Nelson says Harrison was shocked by a Taser by one deputy, then shocked a second time when he charged the deputy and other deputies came to help out.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Aug 31, 2010 - 09:12pm PT
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yes, don't run, or they take you felony style,
and we all know what that means, a little elevator ride at the station,
their fists like matured hams for pounding your brisket,
i'm moving to Germany. seems safer over there.
OK, name this old police show,
winner gets a free refer.
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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Aug 31, 2010 - 09:54pm PT
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Is it a Felony or Misdemeanor to resist arrest or flee?
California = Penal Code 148 PC resisting arrest law is a misdemeanor.
Colorado = 18-8-103. Resisting arrest. = is a misdemeanor
Arizona = 13-2508. Resisting arrest; classification = Felony
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jstan
climber
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Aug 31, 2010 - 10:16pm PT
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I have no personal knowledge as to the correctness of this source. Also it does not
discuss interactions with a Federal Officer.
http://www.ehow.com/about_6134557_definition-resisting-arrest.html
The Definition of Resisting Arrest
By Aura Talbott, eHow Contributor
updated: March 28, 2010
Resisting arrest can have serious consequences.
Being arrested is upsetting, whether you've committed a crime or not. It can be tempting
to resist arrest, but that's not something you should ever do. Resisting arrest can lead
to additional criminal charges, and it places you and the arresting officers in greater danger.
Definition of Resisting Arrest
Resisting arrest is defined as any attempt or effort to refuse or prevent a lawful arrest.
An arrest is considered lawful as long as the arresting officer follows proper police
procedure when making the arrest.
Actions That Constitute Resisting Arrest
Resisting arrest can include arguing with the arresting officer; struggling, fighting or
resisting when being handcuffed or placed in a patrol car; running away from the crime
scene; physically assaulting an officer; or brandishing a deadly weapon, whether or not
it is used. Resisting arrest without violence is a misdemeanor charge. Resisting arrest in
a violent way is a felony.
Grounds For Arrest
An officer can make an arrest if she has an arrest warrant, witnesses a crime being
committed or has probable cause to believe the person she is arresting has been
involved in a crime.
When an Arrest Occurs
If you are arrested, do not attempt to argue, flee or physically resist being taken into
custody. If it is determined that you are innocent, you will not have to worry about
facing charges for resisting arrest. If you are guilty, resisting arrest will only add to
your list of charges.
Know Your Rights
If you are arrested, you cannot be charged with resisting arrest if you refuse to speak
to the arresting officer. The right to remain silent is a constitutional right. If you are
interrogated after your arrest, you have the right to have a lawyer with you during
the interrogation. Cooperating with law enforcement officers during an arrest, regardless
of your guilt or innocence, is the best strategy.
http://www.ehow.com/about_5438461_penalties-resisting-arrest.html
Penalties for Resisting Arrest
By Jorge Pena, eHow Contributor
updated: September 21, 2009
If you have been charged with a crime, it is important that you comply with the
arresting police officers commands. Failure to do so--even when you reasonably
believe the arrest is unlawful--may result in additional penalties other than the
crime for which you are being arrested. Many states create a special crime for
resisting such arrests and have specific penalties attached to these crimes.
California
There are two types of resisting arrest convictions in California and thus there
are two different types of penalties for each conviction. A person can be convicted
of either misdemeanor resisting arrest or felony resisting arrest. The misdemeanor
offense can be punished for up to one year in jail and suffer a fine of up to $1,000.
The felony offense can be punished for up to three years in prison. Prison is not the
same thing as jail. A jail is typically less heavily guarded than prison and is designed
to house inmates who have been charged with a less serious offense. There is also
the potential for more freedom of movement and greater privileges in a jail.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Aug 31, 2010 - 10:41pm PT
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Doc
77 Sunset Strip?
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Aug 31, 2010 - 11:12pm PT
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hey there say... as to the old tv pic.... i think i am recognizing howard duff... but i never saw the show, so i don't know a title...
say, jstan (hope i remembered who posted this arrest info--will edit, if i got it wrong)...
well, i wanted to say this (though we all know about the "running" issue, now):
very sadly so, folks that have certain seizures CAN and will wander, and will not be responsive to an officer's (or anyone elses) commands to stop... very sadly, they will keep on moving, and if approached when having a these type of seizures, they WILL get scared and run... or, in worse cases, even try to fight back--when, if left alone for about:
three minutes---the seizure WOULD pass, and they'd slowly start becoming alert again...
EDIT:
and being NOT GUILTY of any crime, would not be supposed to even be
arrested... though, they may need someone to sit with them, til they fully recover their bearing... or call a friend...
many sad terrible things have happened to these folks, as to taser's, and such, all due to the brain-disorder (these were folks who were no danger to hurting someone, but---yes, they could possibly get hurt themselves, due to their surroundings:
but---the precious three minutes or so that they need, are NOT common knowledge in many police circles...
**just throwing all this in, so folks on either side, can learn...
hard times for all, and there have been deaths due to this, too, sadly,
well, one other thing, just sharing so folks will know:
long time back (perhaps still, in some areas) deaf folks have had terrible times, as to arrest, due to not hearing what an issue is about... some, too, from old days of lack of communication (as this is trying to be addresses more, these days) folks WOULD panic, and run, not trusting that they'd have any rights or anyone to speak for them, or, to even tell them what was going on (the old days, as i said---but in some towns, you'd be surprised how unlearned folks are as to how to help deal with someone who can't hear)...
also, i am not sure (this may or may not be true) but i think? i heard a ways back, that deaf folks were not to be handcuffed behind their back, due to the fact they could not communicate AT ALL then...
very bad if an innocent man or woman was arrested, and thus, would panic...
well, this does not apply to ammon, and all this, but since so much info is
being shared here, as to RUNNING:
i just thought, that the element of panic, needed to be brought up,
as SADLY folks panic and run... (though, yes, i do understand that folks can panic and thus get violent, too---especially drunks--who at the time, may feel quite innocent and picked on)...
well, it seems, from what i've read here:
i reckon one of the BEST things to pass on to others, is:
please don't run.... :O
(though, as i said, this will not work-out for someone that is suffereing an
epileptic seizure)...
well, carry on...
edit: say, dr. sprock.. the TV show is:
i will post the initianls:
F. S.
so someone else can try for your win... :))
all i need is a salute that "i know how to use the old search engine,
as to OLDER tv actors's work"
:))
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Aug 31, 2010 - 11:29pm PT
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that video footage was a bit too much like Footloose.
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jstan
climber
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Aug 31, 2010 - 11:29pm PT
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Good dicussion neebee.
I was riding in the Mohonk truck once when Thom Scheuer saw something happening that should not have. He said, "I'll come back later after they have had some fun and arrest them."
Neebee is on target. The arresting officer always has to try and guess the person's frame of mind as it affects their probable reaction to arrest. I am guessing here but I think it possible one who has just based the Captain will be adrenalated.
I think good officers, like Thom definitely was, have a handle on this.
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tooth
Trad climber
The Best Place On Earth
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Aug 31, 2010 - 11:59pm PT
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Checked out Taser's website. They have shotgun shells now that shoot 4 prongs into you and then the thing opens up and puts even more into the victim.
Those could be used on someone 1-2 pitches up! Handy when they find someone on Sickle without a permit to climb, just shoot and then leave the guy dangling at the end of his rope - no need to put in jail.
How far will they take it with the new toys Taser is coming out with?
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jstan
climber
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Weld_it
Trad climber
Chatsworth
Aug 31, 2010 - 08:50pm PT
I heard he had a nife on him.
Basers have to carrry a knife - right. They need it to cut the chute away if it fouls.
It would be risky not to have a knife - I would think.
With a knife there is no risk.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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i was thinking the same thing, only different,
he was folding up his chute, the cops told him to drop the chute,
he refuses, so they tazer the guy, pure speculation of course,
hey, open forum, to a degree,
now i am pissed at Ammon,
every time i go to the ditch, instead of thinkin ansel adams fake pics, i will be thinkin tazer,
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