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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Aug 18, 2010 - 11:41am PT
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Thanks Crimp.
Cheers,
DD
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Tahoe City/Talmont , CA
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Aug 18, 2010 - 11:46am PT
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Crimpergirl,
Thank you!
You rock :-)
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Aug 18, 2010 - 12:06pm PT
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Although her name was eventually removed from the list, several of her family members were barred from taking flights to her memorial service.
And yet the bin Laden family was free to fly out of the country...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 18, 2010 - 12:23pm PT
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Doug, are you saying the news director never made those comments???
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AKDOG
Mountain climber
Anchorage, AK
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Aug 18, 2010 - 01:04pm PT
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Yes, many Muslims lost their lives as a result of the 9/11 attack.
Here are more Muslims that lost their lives as a result of 9/11. Of course these guys wanted too.
AMERICAN AIRLINES #77
BOEING 757
1) Khalid Almihdhar
2) Majed Moqed
3) Nawaf Alhazmi
4) Salem Alhazmi
5) Hani Hanjour
AMERICAN AIRLINES #11
BOEING 767
1) Satam M.A. Al Suqami
2) Waleed M. Alshehri
3) Wail M. Alshehri
4) Mohamed Atta
5) Abdulaziz Alomari
UNITED AIRLINES #175
BOEING 767
1) Marwan Al-Shehhi
2) Fayez Rashid Ahmed Hassan Al Qadi Banihammad
3) Ahmed Alghamdi
4) Hamza Alghamdi
5) Mohand Alshehri
UNITED AIRLINES #93
BOEING 757
1) Saeed Alghamdi
2) Ahmed Ibrahim A. Al Haznawi
3) Ahmed Alnami
4) Ziad Samir Jarrah
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Aug 18, 2010 - 01:45pm PT
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Actually, the captured hikers and their families maintain that they never
crossed over the Iranian border.
They say that they were "arrested" by the Iranians miles outside the border.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Aug 18, 2010 - 02:46pm PT
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That is stupid. Hawkeye, have you even been reading the intelligent remarks made on both sides of this great discussion?
[Edit] You would have realized within seconds that religious freedom is not at issue.
i get it bertrand...religious freedom is fine just not in our neighborhood...
tell me whats FREE about that?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Aug 18, 2010 - 03:53pm PT
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Sacred ground...right. This is what the area looks like close yo the same distance from "Ground Zero" and the new community center.
http://daryllang.com/blog/4421
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Aug 18, 2010 - 04:02pm PT
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as much as I am in favor of freedom of worship (or in my case non-worship)...
I have to say... wrong place, wrong time.
Maybe if the people of NY were to have a vote..
if they chose to do so.. I'd have no problem..
I udnerstand that the Islamic religion did not the tragedy of 09/11... It was carried out by a few fundamentalists... of that religion....
again, wrong place, wrong time..
I liken it to US wanting to erect a christian church on the ground of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bomb locations right after blowing them to pulp(not that anyone would have had a problem with that with it being all erradiated and all)...
but in the same vane....
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Maysho
climber
Soda Springs, CA
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Aug 18, 2010 - 04:08pm PT
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Wrong place wrong time?
Consider the actual place...
From what I read this community center is proposed for TWO BLOCKS NORTH. Have any of you visited this area? Once you leave the actual World Trade Center site there are hundreds of all sorts of businesses, from porn shops to banks to churches etc. the whole amazing jumble of Manhattan. This is not placing a mosque on "hallowed ground" at all. Two blocks in Manhattan can be worlds apart. Let go of this latest right wing talk show talking point and get real.
Peter
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 18, 2010 - 05:04pm PT
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Read it again, Riley. All the way to the end....
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Aug 18, 2010 - 05:08pm PT
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Maybe if the people of NY were to have a vote.
So if everyone votes to keep black people off the bus, it would be ok?
Why the hell is voting considered a good way to decide things? Freedom should never be something that can be voted away from some other group or there would be no Bill of Rights anymore.
Let everyone build fast food chains, strip joints, and community centers wherever it has been zoned for that type of building. If it should not be built then zone the area so that no on, regardless of religion, can build anything there.
Dave
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 18, 2010 - 05:33pm PT
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Riley...
Though talks between the church and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey stalled last year, church leaders say they've been trying to kick-start discussions ever since. But amid debate over whether a proposed Islamic community center should go forward near Ground Zero, government officials threw cold water on the prospect of any deal with the church -- telling Fox News the deal is off the table.
Confronted with the Port Authority's verdict, Father Mark Arey, of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, said it's the first he's heard that.
and
Sigmund said the "final offer" was made last year, which again included $60 million.
"They rejected that offer," he said.
But Arey said the original site is no good. And archdiocese officials disputed the Port Authority's claims, saying the church has complied with all conditions.
"It's not about money," Arey said. He expressed hope that the project can still be salvaged.
"This little church deserves to be rebuilt. It's symbolic, not just for Orthodox Christians, not just for Christians, but for all Americans," Arey said, calling the mosque debate "helpful" to the church's cause. "I believe that people around the country are asking themselves the question -- why all this talk about a mosque being built near Ground Zero? What about a little church that was destroyed on 9/11? ... This is basically a bureaucratic impasse. This will dissolve in the face of the American public consciousness."
Former New York Gov. George Pataki, who worked with the church as governor, told Fox News on Tuesday that the church should be rebuilt.
George Demos, a Republican candidate for New York's 1st Congressional District, also has drawn attention to the negotiations. He released an open letter to President Obama Tuesday urging him to, as he did with the mosque debate, weigh in on the church discussions.
Then Riley says;
Yo waste my time blue - nothing there but a few more fox news sound bites - bullsh#t..
Pretty funny the hypocrisy though - f*#k, Fox is such a cancer.
Is it true if CNN covers it? How about NBC?
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Aug 18, 2010 - 05:40pm PT
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Looks like they cannot rebuild a Greek Orthodox Church that was destroyed on 9/11.
And for good reason. George Habash, founder of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine and leading proponent of the use of terror in Palestine and Israel, including the hijacking of planes, was a Greek Orthodox Christian.
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
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Bertrand
climber
California
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Aug 18, 2010 - 05:48pm PT
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Looks like this entire debacle is mostly an invention of Fox News.
Radical, instead of questioning the story's veracity b/c it is brought to you by a network that exposes events you don't like to see in focus, maybe you should be wondering why the other networkd FAILED to bring it to your attention. A Mosque at Ground Zero IS a big deal, and I am glad I know about it. Especially newsworthy is that the President did not even have the constitution to speak out against it..that's also a big deal.
By the way, thanks for the map..I forgot who posted it. I spent a lot of time in that area when I recently lived in Manhattan.. Those blocks are VERY small. It is fair to say the proposed site is AT Ground Zero.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 18, 2010 - 06:03pm PT
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My guess, Ken, is that any tribute - direct or veiled - might just be far more encompassing than the particular Muslims which you happen to mention.
You guessed it. I am not a very big fan of the religion of Islam or Sharia law. This happened a few days ago.
Just when you thought that absurd, monstrous Biblical punishments had been consigned to the dustbin of history, the Taliban is bringing back stoning. Way to be awful monsters, guys. What crime merited this horrific execution method?
Elopement. A couple eloped, because their families didn't think they should be married. Then they were lured back to the village with promises of forgiveness. Then they were seized and sentenced to death.
After the Taliban proclaimed the sentence, Siddiqa, dressed in the head-to-toe Afghan burqa, and Khayyam, who had a wife and two young children, were encircled by the male-only crowd in the bazaar. Taliban activists began stoning them first, then villagers joined in until they killed first Siddiqa and then Khayyam, Mr. Khan said. No women were allowed to attend, he said.
Mr. Khan estimated that about 200 villagers participated in the executions, including Khayyam's father and brother, and Siddiqa's brother, as well as other relatives, with a larger crowd of onlookers who did not take part.
[NYT. Pic via]
Yes, Ken, I DO also know about the atrocities of Christianity esp in the middle ages but this is 2010 and the above incident just happened a few days ago. For the record, Ken, I am not in support of witch hunting any Muslims in the US. I could, however, very much do without their religion. I would just as soon not have to be reminded of it anywhere near ground zero.
So, I would think that you would want to undermine the purpetrators of the above, not support them. I would think that you would want to help their opponents fight indoctrination to this practice, not support those that do these things.
But you don't. You want to give aid and comfort to those who are mortal enemies of the US, and you want to subvert those who have devoted themselves to supporting the US. What is the term I'm looking for.......?
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