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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Oct 20, 2015 - 08:50am PT
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You say that today there are 90 bolts...why? Because it gets climbed by 2-3 parties a day, often sharing anchors with their haulbags, then another party also with haulbags might bail through the middle of them. You're really out of touch, as this is how things have been on the route for 2+ decades, getting busier every year.
There are still several belays that are dangerous and completely inadequate for the traffic. More bolts are needed and I'm glad people like Erik are out there actually maintaining and making real (even if occasionally flawed) decisions about them rather than the far easier task of spewing on the internet about how your theories and ethics from past decades should apply while you actually sit and do nothing.
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c wilmot
climber
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Oct 20, 2015 - 08:52am PT
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Patching a bolt hole is only adding pollutants to the environment. The rock does not care if its drilled. At all. Its a rock. I spent years in the valley drilling, plugs and feathering, smashing, and blowing up the rock.
it never once complained.
the thing that will cause change is complaining to the Park Service- who currently does not care
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 20, 2015 - 09:18am PT
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Thanks JLP....I'm glad I got to experience some classic climbs before the masses arrived.
If you need info on Patagonia, Alaska or the Karakorum PM me so you don't seem..."out of touch."
Funny how some climbers used the Valley as a launching pad and not as a lifetime avocation.
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overwatch
climber
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Oct 20, 2015 - 09:20am PT
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The guy seems to have NPD traits which usually means no discussion possible.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Oct 20, 2015 - 09:21am PT
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bingo
...and wrong again cwilmot.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Oct 20, 2015 - 09:32am PT
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I thought the whole idea behind The Salathe was a route on El Cap with as few bolts as absolutely possible.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Oct 20, 2015 - 09:36am PT
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Get with it Chaz that's old codger thinking
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Oct 20, 2015 - 09:37am PT
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...there are still several belays that are dangerous...
Oh my GOD, danger in climbing! So dangerous that how many belay set-ups have failed on the Salathe in 50 years?
I'll violate my own rule of thumb on Supertopo: JLP is an idiot. Please take up bowling JLP, and leave the "dangerous" activities to those with brains.
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c wilmot
climber
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Oct 20, 2015 - 09:37am PT
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bingo
...and wrong again cwilmot.
Do explain.
And any epoxy is not natural and is a pollutant. Filling in a hole would actually be defined as vandalism and polluting by the NPS
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FrankZappa
Trad climber
Hankster's crew
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Oct 20, 2015 - 09:57am PT
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There are still several belays that are dangerous and completely inadequate for the traffic.
Maybe instead of sitting around and doing nothing, you and Erik should team up and bravely embark on a suicide mission up the Salathe and spray some more bolts in to make it safe for everyone climbing, hauling, and bailing all over each other.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Oct 20, 2015 - 10:01am PT
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You're misinformed
Perhaps you mean ex-NPS trail crew doesn't care?
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Lurkingtard
climber
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Oct 20, 2015 - 10:10am PT
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Oct 20, 2015 - 09:37am PT
bingo
...and wrong again cwilmot.
Do explain.
And any epoxy is not natural and is a pollutant. Filling in a hole would actually be defined as vandalism and polluting by the NPS
lol. You're really going to make that argument? Please go on.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Oct 20, 2015 - 10:40am PT
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Bolting every belay is undoubtedly a dumbing down and unnecessary, but what are other ways of dealing with the increased traffic especially at belays where gear is limited?
I know it's a novel thought, but how about teams exercising a bit of self-discipline, so that they don't "pile up" at the belays in the first place. Do you REALLY need to get onto your chosen route less than a day behind the team ahead of you? Do you REALLY need to bail THIS MINUTE without consideration for the teams you'll have to pass on the way down?
Endless self-disciplinary questions like the above could/should be asked by EACH team on a "trade route."
Look, the destruction of routes SHOULD lead participants to ask: "Am I really at a theme park? Do I need to 'Magic Mountain' this route? Should I really be looking for an escalator rather than the next placement/pitch?"
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Oct 20, 2015 - 10:47am PT
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^^^^ LOL
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Oct 20, 2015 - 10:53am PT
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How many natural belays remain on El Cap? I am guessing very few. The pile ups are unavoidoable no matter what the Internet says should happen- I'm also guessing many of our forum hard men would be a little uncomfortable hanging from mank while sharing a belay with a bailing cluster.
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FrankZappa
Trad climber
Hankster's crew
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Oct 20, 2015 - 11:01am PT
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Bolting every belay is undoubtedly a dumbing down and unnecessary, but what are other ways of dealing with the increased traffic especially at belays where gear is limited?
Good question. My answer would be that climbers would use their decision making skills to conclude whether it is a good idea(or not) to add traffic to the route at that time. We've all looked up at a route and had to make that decision. More simply, if we go out to the local sport crag and someone is climbing the intended route, we don't just get on it and start climbing it at the same time, and most of don't think the answer to put two lines of bolts and anchors on that same sport climb?
Maybe if the route wasn't dumbed down, there would be less people on it? Sounds like a more enjoyable experience to me.
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Oct 20, 2015 - 11:14am PT
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I talked with a good friend last night with knowledge of this.
Eric, You need to stop! It's one thing to knowingly destroy someone's vision for personal profit, but the way in which you are doing it is so much worse. And you've erased countless hours of others hard work to restore and maintain routes which really is what's bad. This has an extremely demoralizing affect on those who would want to get on El Cap and those who ARE INVOLVED in maintaining the heritage, safety and history of all routes, not just aid because who wants to invest hundreds of hours of hard work by hand only to have you wipe it out overnight?
You have also ripped off others by using others products to push your product line. A lot of hard work is going into trying to accurately map
El Cap but that can't be done when you've changed/and continue to change the landscape considerably.
It's a shame that someone with your energy can't do the right thing up there. You could give so much! Instead, and ironically, with all the energy you've used, you've only taken.
It's always amazed me that tyrants are allowed to go on so long. Many make it to a ripe old age without having been taken to task. Hopefully you are one who will be shut down before it's to late.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Oct 20, 2015 - 11:24am PT
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My answer would be that climbers would use their decision making skills
Yeah, that's what I said. Then I was told that it's ridiculous to expect this.
So, the Valley is lost, apparently. Escalator-mentality in full swing (pun fully intended)!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Oct 20, 2015 - 11:33am PT
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Sadly, Raymond, it's apparent that what "should" be done and what IS going to be done have come wildly apart!
ES wears a Teflon-coated shield of insanity, such that all attempts to REASON with him on this thread bounce right off. He is impervious to consensus and reasoned arguments. He is like a medical doctor but without even the training: Often wrong; never uncertain!
So, this thread has become an exercise in futility, it appears.
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RyanD
climber
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Oct 20, 2015 - 11:41am PT
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This thread, lmao.
Pussy class or warrior class? Or Internet warrior class?
Seems to be the majority here.
Arf, arf, arf, if I could only get off of supertopo I'd actually go do something about it .
Much more entertaining than politics and school shootings though so please carry on.
I'm still waiting for the part where the Internet fixes this whole situation and Erik tells you all how sorry he is and how right you all are for witch hunting him on supertopo every month or so, then he goes about his usual awesome day hanging out and climbing in Yosemite, except now he is enamoured by hope for finally realizing what an idiot he is- all because a bunch of guys on the Internet who may or may not have climbed the same rocks he did in a different style and have a different view but have never bothered to contact him personally or talk to his face think so. Yahhhhhhh!!!!!
Just wait it's coming in the next few hundred posts for sure!
Woot, woot!!
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