Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 28, 2008 - 12:57am PT
|
"Do you think it might be because Democrats are traditionaly against them.
Duhhhhh..... "
No, it's because they don't give a sh#t either way, at least enough to pontificate about it. State's rights are great when they result in good policy. They suck when they don't.
Duhhhhh.....
|
|
Binks
Social climber
i am of the universe and you know what it's worth.
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2008 - 01:30am PT
|
Yes it is OK that Heather has two mommies. My friend Reid has two as well. Straight and married with two kids himself. Just like blacks and whites getting married, it could be called historically abnormal behavior. The same arguments were used, this is just the next phase. You can do what you want, now let others have the same freedom.
|
|
bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2008 - 01:34am PT
|
Jody...I have been married to the same woman for 33 years and counting. Gays getting married has nothing to do with the success or failure of my marriage.
I wish them all the happiness that I have found. Love is a beautiful thing.
|
|
Doug Buchanan
Mountain climber
Fairbanks Alaska
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2008 - 02:04am PT
|
Moose, rice, vegis and SuperTopo again for supper.
Upgraded some dumpster-find shelves for the AlaskanAlpineClub museum today, with some dumpster-find paint.
Another reason the observers are so well entertained by the humans rhetorically thrashing-about over gay marriage, drugs, guns, abortions, climbing area closures and such adventures can be seen in this thread, and the others.
Primitive lot that they are, especially the Americans have not yet learned how to use words that hold their dictionary meanings, which creates 2 problems.
Just read some of the thread comments slowly, and consider the real meanings of the words.
Because even the dictionary meanings of words include an extent of similar concepts, the mind must work to successfully convey or understand a concept from any given sentence.
But when the words are used for concepts beyond their dictionary meanings, the normally fast reading reader's mind, having barely learned the dictionary meanings and little else, will routinely route data into the wrong neurally identified concept, creating confusion and arguments that hold no substance.
But worse, the mind of the person using the wrong words will do the same thing with his own words. It is how the mind physically works. Your own mind will therefore remain confused with concepts expressed by yourself and others.
Worse, a confused neural routing pattern will alter the synthesis of similar data.
Worse, when somebody else uses words that actually hold their meanings, and thus offers extremely valuable knowledge you clearly want, your mind will have no trained neural routing patterns to understand the words.
There are many gays, gun owners, pot smokers, climbers and such questionable sorts who sincerely want to be able to exercise their HUMAN RIGHTS without being harassed by cops, Park Service pigs, RepublicratDemocans, Christian SuperStatists, and the local schoolyard bully. The process to do so is laughably easy to learn and manifest, defeating any possible human opponent, by design of the human mind.
But to convey the concept requires that the receiver of the knowledge first learns how to understand words that hold their meanings. Why do you think the observers laugh themselves to tears at such sentences?
If you think the marriage craving gays have a problem, consider those gullible climbers on another SuperTopo thread holding yet another fund raiser to get more climber money to feed and kowtow to the lawyers and bureaucrats who are therefore being rewarded to continually close or threaten to close climbing areas.
Like the gays, they have been offered the solutions many places and times, but by necessity, with words that hold their meanings, so the establishment climbing organization leaders remain clueless and even denigrate the people attempting to help them, much to the laughter of the observers.
The resolutions of the contradictions are child's play, but you must learn how to use words that hold their meanings. Practice. You do not care about the other guy. He must learn on his own. Your own mind must be accurately functioning, to therefore be able to play with the idiots who still do not know how to use their mind, and assist them in defeating their goals, if you wish.
That is just one part of the puzzle. Easily learn the puzzle, or end up so confused you cannot even arrange words that hold their meanings.
Or so I might imagine. A little wine might be in order, perhaps a Fidelitas 2005 Cabernet Sauvignon, on account as it is in front of me.
DougBuchanan.com
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2008 - 02:18am PT
|
I personally blame my out-of-wedlock child and heathen cohabative lifestyle the looming specter of gay marriage and you should too.
Oh wait you already are.
Carry on.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2008 - 02:22am PT
|
KB "Also, throughout MOST of history and in MUCH of the world, marriages have been arraigned by the families for their kids, often when they have been too young to choose for themselves."
Now that, I believe, is what is called a Freudian slip.
I gather marriage is ostensibly a life sentence, but didn't know one had to be arraigned first.
|
|
L
climber
Eating sand on the shores of Malibu...
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2008 - 02:34am PT
|
There's a gay couple I know who lives in West Hollywood. They've been together for about 12 or 15 years--I forget exactly. They're very funny, wonderfully intelligent men. Business professionals, too.
Anyway, they both really wanted children. Yep, imagine that. Even pervs feel that biological need to "father". But two gay men were not going to be allowed to adopt a baby...they didn't need Dr. Phil to tell them that.
Unless...
...they took what no one else wanted.
Yep. They adopted a "crack baby".
All you Healthy Moral Society members know what a crack baby is, don't you? It's this tiny infant whom God has cursed for its sins even before its birth...oh, wait a minute...wrong belief system...It's this tiny infant whose only crime was to be born to a mother addicted to crack.
So these babies--and there are lots and lots of them--cry and scream and go through withdrawals from a drug they never wanted to ingest. There are many physical complications along with the withdrawal symptoms, too. It is horrible. And heart-wrenching to watch and listen to such an innocent little being in so much agony. Many of them die. No one wants to adopt a crack baby, so their torture is exacerbated by being virtually abandoned by humanity.
These two gay men in West Hollywood adopted a crack baby...a little boy. And although it was extremely difficult for all the reasons mentioned above, and much, much more--that infant did remarkably well with those two ungodly sinners. So well, in fact, that the agency gave those two freakin' queers another crack baby--a little girl.
Since they knew what to expect this time, those hedonistic homos got that little baby girl to respond as a normal baby would much sooner than their first little boy...and their first little boy was turning into a fairly healthy toddler by this time. Both of these guys were working day and night to help these thrown-away babies not only survive, but thrive. Those friggin' fags...turned out to be dang great fathers.
They ended up getting four crack babies total last I heard, and all four have survived into toddlerhood, and are well on their way to living a normal childhood...with two faggots.
Now, I have to be honest with you guys. That some of you think it's a "problem" for these kids to go to school some day and admit to having two fathers...two dads who held them as they screamed and vomited and crapped all over everything all day long...and all through the long nights...
Two dads who fed them when they couldn't keep food down, cradled them to their hearts when those tiny bodies were racked with the shakes, and sang them to sleep when exhaustion finally closed those small eyelids...
Two fathers who loved what no one else wanted, and produced miracles that even the doctors couldn't believe--well, all I've got to say is I don't think anyone anywhere, especially those four kids, is going to give a rat's batootie if their parents names are Jim and Mark, or Steve and Bill. The fact that some of you are worried about it truly is a lack of love and compassion...and that lack does not exist in those two gloriously gay friends of mine.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2008 - 04:11am PT
|
I personally view religion and the sheparding techniques it employs as the root source of war and genocide - so yes, I despise religion. But I'm polite when Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door, though they usually leave pretty quickly of their own volition. But as dangerous as I view religious beliefs - particularly the twins of Christianity and Islam - I respect the Constitution with regard to this aspect of our nation's society and laws.
Again, every post succeeding post you make, Jody, just further illustrates the depth of your intolerance and fear. One ludicrous claim after another rolls out in your posts, like the gem about 'marriage is timeless' - you and roxjox ever been divorced? The stats are pretty bleak on the 'timeless' front...
Percentage of marriages which reach their 5th, 10th, 15th, 25th, and 35th anniversaries:
05th: 82%
10th: 65%
15th: 52%
25th: 33%
35th: 20%
My wife's and most other Native American tribes also didn't think homosexuals among them were normal - they were considered special or gifted - and were accomodated as an integral part of tribal culture and life. That they did so ended up just another rationale for genocide by folks who I'm guessing thought a lot like you when they arrived. On the whole, I'd say your department's diversity training really isn't getting a whole lot of traction with you and your buddies.
|
|
happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2008 - 09:42am PT
|
L's story of her friends brought tears to my eyes. Don't see how anyone could have read it and not felt joy, not only for those children but for the guys who are parenting them.
|
|
Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2008 - 10:04am PT
|
the boomers didn't change the rules on this...
it's the folks entering their early 30's now who did.
you cannot be concerned with how others engage in intimacy,
it is impolite and the climate of intolerance toward
hating or bigoting "alternative" lifestyles is high.
Besides, the main fear homophobes have is that THEY
are homo, and that someday it'll be considered as
normal as being hetero.
It's a fear thing, but I think respect and
love toward those with deep seated fears
is the best thing.
Bigotry is dying. It has to.
|
|
L
climber
Eating sand on the shores of Malibu...
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2008 - 12:13pm PT
|
Heh-heh-heh...whew! Thanks, Wes...thought you'd undergone a personality change or something.;-)
Stzzo, Happi--thanks for the thanks. If you knew my friends, and saw what they went through with those beautiful little kids...you'd think my story was shallow compared to the real deal.
And I think they are going to get married with a State-sanctioned ceremony...only so their children won't be thought to be bastards...;-)
|
|
nita
climber
chica from chico, I don't claim to be a daisy
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2008 - 12:27pm PT
|
Jody says,"L, I am not denying that there are stories like yours. You can, however, find a few great examples from any segment of society that in no way, shape or form is indicative of that segment as a whole."
...........
Jody,I just talked with my girfriend who works with California State -Foster Adoptions. Her words..Gay couples are a huge resource for us,there are a large number of adoptions by gay couples. She told me when she had time, she would try to find numbers.
|
|
L
climber
Eating sand on the shores of Malibu...
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2008 - 01:12pm PT
|
Hi Princess Nita!:-)
Jody, my story wasn't about showing what a great group of people gays are as "a whole", as you put it, and to try to invalidate it like that means you didn't actually read it, not with an open mind anyway. My story is about the love and compassion of two ordinary human beings who are literally doing something to make this world a better place.
They are not quoting scripture and then ignoring the "love and compassion" part, which happens to be the norm in this society. (I know this from multiple first-hand experience--arguments on that point won't fly.) They do not think of themselves as special--they think of themselves as lucky to have found a life-partner, and the fact that our bigoted society has labeled them "perverts" is unfortunate, but it hasn't stopped them from loving each other and offering that love to other cast-offs.
There are heterosexuals out there doing the same sort of thing, I'm sure. My point is what the heck does someone's personal lovelife have to do with anything?
It's none of our business...we on the outside...what people do in the privacy of their bedrooms as long as it's between two consenting adults and no one is getting hurt.
It's none of our business if two people in love with each other want to honor that love with a marriage sanctified by the State. I say Good for them! I myself am disillusioned with the mental institution of marriage--so what? That people who have been brutalized by society still want to participate in its rituals is none of my business.
Jody, when I see photos of you, your wife and kids, and read about the great relationship you have, all I do is celebrate a union that's working, that's bringing joy to its partners. Bob being married for 33 years makes me happy! The wife appreciation thread made me ecstatic! I love reading about love. I could have put three posts in there from friends of mine about the deep love they feel for each other, and no one on this forum would've recognized it as coming from a same-sex couple.
Why does it matter what physical make-up a person is wearing when it concerns matters of the heart?
I'm not trying to dissuade you from your viewpoint--I am trying to show you that perhaps your viewpoint is not encompassing the "do unto others as you would have others do unto you" golden rule.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2008 - 01:32pm PT
|
"By the way, just because someone SAYS they "did it in the name of God" doesn't mean it is so."
Truer words never spoken.
Likewise, when someone says "god says to do this/not do that", don't bet on it being the case.
L, I liked your story about the adopted crack babies. It's hard to see how anything but good came from what your friends did.
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2008 - 01:55pm PT
|
When someone is labeled as "gay" or "lesbian" or "bisexual" these words defined by who you are primarily attracted to. In other words, if you are a man primarily attracted to woman you are a heterosexual even if you are virgin.. Likewise, if you are man who is primarily attracted to other men, you are gay even if you have never had gay sex. And if you are a man attracted to both men and women, you are bisexual, even if you only have sex with women.
" Wes, please do not equate the choice to engage in homosexual acts with being born black."
This statement is based on the premise that gays and lesbians have a choice between being homosexual and heterosexual and are choosing to be homosexual. Rightly or wrongly, many (but probably not most) Americans share this belief.
Why would they think that people have a "choice?" In order to reasonably make this argument they must feel that they, themselves, also had a choice. So are they closet bisexuals that are suppressing part of their sexual desires and "choosing" instead to pursue only heterosexual activities?
If not, why do they think gays have a "choice?" Can anyone answer that?
|
|
nita
climber
chica from chico, I don't claim to be a daisy
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2008 - 02:01pm PT
|
"Nita, have any long term studies been done on children who grew up in same-sex parent families?"
.....
Jody, when she gets back from a out of town wedding..I will let her answer that question. Some how, i think she will say something in reguards tooo.
If we leave kids with Meth parents that's healthier? No food, drugs in their system, no supervision, no consistency, no love,left to fend for themselves etc...
Living in 10 to over 20 foster homes- is healthier than a loving family? .... Jody,gays are people,if you think of them as people ...it may help.
Jody, I will make sure she answers your question.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2008 - 03:07pm PT
|
Hitler, Stalin, and Mao were all astute scholars of the various organizing methodologies of fear including those used by the western religions. The fear and fervor-based power structures they generated shared many aspects in common with the world's great religions from whom they liberally borrowed as suited their needs. That they assumed the mantle of 'gods' here on Earth has no shortage of religious parallels. Religion is simply one of the most persistent, pervasive, and pernicious of these human power constructs which I find particularly dangerous and contemptable.
Being black, left-handed, and homosexual are all genetic expressions of the human genome.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2008 - 03:13pm PT
|
And where is the documentation on the so-called "handedness gene"?
For that matter, disctinctions of 'race' consist of only about 8% of the mere 0.1% of differences in our human genomes; i.e. 'race' is, biologically-speaking, a fairly irrelevant term - i.e. there is no "race gene" either.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2008 - 03:25pm PT
|
And virile, neocon, Republican Vice Presidents aren't even immune! Amazing that Jody would vote for a person to run the country who is so incompetent he couldn't even manage the simple task of raising a straight daughter.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!