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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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Mar 24, 2012 - 08:34pm PT
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but science has not proven everything
And I could say that religion has not proven anything, but then I too might be guilty of argumentum ad ignorantiam.
God and Luck are human constructs. People have always had a tendency to take events personally.
If the crops were bad, it was because there was too much fornicating and God was angry and we'd better sacrifice some virgins. Or, My buddies were all blown up, and I alone survived--I'm either very lucky or God has a plan for me. It's all the same.
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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
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Mar 24, 2012 - 09:24pm PT
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Luggi- I think the phrase "Science has not yet proven everything..." would be more appropriate. You are right, we don't know everything. But every day our knowledge base is expanding. Every day we gain a better understanding of the world around us.
I doubt we could ever know everything. It seems that whenever we answer one question we create several more. But to me the beauty of science is its adaptability. Even when our scientific understanding is wrong we learn and our knowledge base grows.
One of my problems with our most popular religions is that they are limited by bronze age dogma. They are incapable of adapting to new information or admitting their old beliefs could be inaccurate. I don't care for such stagnation.
That said, I'm not anti-religious. I just don't want religious people from any religion forcing their religious beliefs on others. If my religion told me that same-sex marriage is wrong, I would avoid marrying anyone of my same sex. End of story. Sadly, that is not good enough for many religious people.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
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Mar 25, 2012 - 12:22am PT
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There is crap that happens to us that has no explanation. So how do scientists explain things that have no explanation scientifically.
Mathematically.
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perswig
climber
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Mar 25, 2012 - 06:05am PT
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^^
Thanks for that, Marlow.
Had to look up Vik Muniz, "Pictures of Garbage", and Waste Land. Beautiful stuff.
Dale
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Mar 25, 2012 - 12:38pm PT
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I easily forget to mention the "Our Lord Cleese is Great"-point Lolli. I'm a lazy boy. Thanks for reminding us!
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Mar 25, 2012 - 03:18pm PT
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"The right wing in American likes to think that the United States government was, at its inception, highly religious, specifically highly Christian, and -- and more to the point -- highly biblical." This was not true of that or any later government -- until 2000. Wills is particularly shrewd in delineating Karl Rove's part in bringing this about: While crediting the former White House advisor's mastery of electoral technologies, Wills argues that "his real skill lay in finding how to use religion as a political tool . . . . He shaped the hard core of the Republican Party around resentments religious people felt over abortion, homosexuality, Darwinism, women's liberation, pornography and school prayer . . . . Rove made the executive branch of the United States more openly and avowedly religious than it had ever been, though he had no discernible religious belief himself. His own indifference allowed him to be ecumenical in his appeal to Protestants, Catholics and Jews."
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Mar 25, 2012 - 03:24pm PT
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Around 2009 And still today?
"The news that Creation, Jon Amiel's biopic of Charles Darwin, made it all the way through the Toronto Film Festival - at which it was the opening-night feature - without securing an American distributor proves once and for all that the only kind of science the American religious right is prepared to put up with is science-fiction.
However, I'm astonished to learn that its producer, Jeremy Thomas, is "astonished" at the lukewarm American interest in the movie. The briefest glance at the low priority granted to science during the Bush administration is enough to show that - where objectively verifiable facts are concerned - the American right has taken a giant leap backwards, down to the knuckle-dragging, bulging-forehead stage of the evolutionary table. Just don't try telling these folks that their grandaddy was a chimp: they may have the smallest brains in America, but they also have the biggest guns.
All summer, thanks to the rancorous healthcare debate, we in the US have been favoured with an extended look right down the gullet - the yawning maw - of the fundamentalist American right. If we thought we had buried the hatreds of the past when we elected a black president a year ago, this summer was a salutary reminder that you just can't kill ignorance and religious bigotry, especially if large and wealthy corporations put their money behind it. This is a country where billionaires like Howard F Ahmanson Jr use their vast fortunes to inseminate such science-hating think-tanks as the Discovery Institute and the public-stoning-friendly Chalcedon Foundation - whose essential mission is, to quote Ahmanson himself, "The total integration of biblical law into our lives" (Handmaid's Tale alert!). People of this disposition cannot accept that we are somehow related to monkeys. You can say that about the new president, but not about the ape-like thugs shouting down US senators nationwide throughout August.
In contentedly secular Britain, meanwhile, Darwin's bicentenary has prompted a surge of national pride, which is perfectly appropriate when your country has produced the Einstein, the Galileo, the Turing of the natural sciences.
In America, the right has demonised On The Origin Of Species as if it were Mein Kampf ("Darwin: a racist, a bigot and 1800s naturalist whose legacy is mass murder" says Christian website Movieguide), with the result that a field theory condoned by 99% of scientists is only believed in by a paltry 43% of US citizens."
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SeanH
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Mar 26, 2012 - 09:01pm PT
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You atheists better hope you are right.
Don't know you, so not sure if your comment should be taken at face value, but... as an atheist, I really hope I'm wrong! It would be really great, if after my body died, my consciousness lived on in some other plane, and even better if my loved ones were there.
On the other hand, if there really is a higher power/omnipotent creator, I can only hope he/she/it doesn't fault me for believing what logic and the sum of all of my experiences compels me to.
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jstan
climber
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Mar 26, 2012 - 09:10pm PT
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Two days ago I was pouring concrete and for some reason thought of a valid test to see if there are actually any true believers out there.
All you do is call Ready Mix and ask if anyone has told them, "Don't measure the amount of water you put into the mixer.
God is taking care of me."
My guess is they have never received this instruction. Not once.
If they have not it proves one of two things.
1. There is no one who actually believes this stuff.
2. True believers never build anything.
You choose.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Mar 26, 2012 - 09:26pm PT
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Why should the Atheists hope they're right?
Lol Jstan, i'll say it for them.
"Joseph was a carpenter, and a believer."
/yawn.
And that Moses guy built an ark while everyone else died. And somehow repopulated? I was never really sure where that story was going... And the ark is now some how on the moon? Wtf Mate.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Mar 30, 2012 - 02:02am PT
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And that Moses guy built an ark while everyone else died. And somehow repopulated? I was never really sure where that story was going... And the ark is now some how on the moon? Wtf Mate.
C'mon. How long are you guys gonna use that joke regarding an "Ark on the Moon"? I called it that tongue-in-cheek, and to get a rise out of you all. It worked big-time.
C'mon it isn't Noah's Ark on the Moon. If anything it is an ET "Ark" of sorts. A Mothership if you will.
Heck, even Transformers: Dark of the Moon called the craft on the backside of the Moon an "Ark."
I stand vindicated.
You do all know that validation of UFOs/ET is evidence that points to GOD being real don't you?
If ETs are actually masquerading Fallen Angels/Nephilim/Demons, then GOD is real and what he says in The Good Book is true.
Ponder that.
You might want to read Leslie Kean's Book on UFOs/ET. They are here and its a real phenomenon.
UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go on the Record [Paperback] Leslie Kean (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/UFOs-Generals-Pilots-Government-Officials/dp/0307717089/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC?ie=UTF8&coliid=I7M5ZMCRSCLAU&colid=2GL3DFQ4AXH2G
Even the famous PhD Jacques Vallee, who is not a Christian, figured it out. ETs are demonic.
Messengers of Deception: UFO Contacts and Cults [Paperback]
Jacques Vallee (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Messengers-Deception-UFO-Contacts-Cults/dp/097572004X/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2G9FMZ5NRK1P4&colid=2GL3DFQ4AXH2G
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Mar 30, 2012 - 04:30am PT
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So can ET's go to heaven...?
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Mar 30, 2012 - 06:47am PT
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Of course I jest with you, Stannard, because I know you jest, but
it dumbfounds me that you ever made it through a first grade
science class, or should I say logic class... Then again, if I recall,
Einstein flunked out somewhere along the line too... so, pray tell...
By the way, wasn't that how they used to mix cement in the old days...
to eyeball it more or less? Or you'd receive the mix and be left to add
water until it was enough? Shows what I know...
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jstan
climber
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Mar 30, 2012 - 09:50am PT
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Pat:
Or so would I have thought until I started pouring concrete in ten ton lots. Concrete technology has come a very long way.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Of course I was just funnin'...
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!”
I hope to see you on that day!!!
The lamb is getting married? And you hope that I'm invited to its wedding so that you can see me there?
So far, I haven't received my invitation, but then, I'm not sure where they're going to hold the wedding. I don't think it's legal for sheep to get married in the US.
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go-B
climber
Habakkuk 3:19 Sozo
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Ghost, that was baaaad!
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